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I'm just gonna say it, if you want to break up with your girlfriend don't be a dick about it.
"Don't go on a hike with someone you don't trust." All you little boys in here victim blaming need to be checked.
Got back into the dating world recently and was pretty surprised to learn that respectfully communicating your feelings about things afterwards is apparently rare. People need to grow up.
the pair were not exclusive
…
MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women
…isn’t that was “not exclusive” means?
Casual partners may still prefer to know if their partner is sleeping with others for a variety of reasons. The first one that comes to mind is health.
Sure. My point is, though, isn’t that already implied by them not being exclusive?
They could be not exclusive but still agree to let the other know when they introduce a new sex partner.
Y'all never heard of safe sex?
You don't expect your BF to hook up with someone new mid-mountain.
A recent case study illustrates this point: last month, an amateur Austrian mountaineer was found guilty of gross negligence manslaughter for leaving his exhausted girlfriend behind on his country’s highest peak while he went in search of help. The man, a Salzburg chef identified only as Thomas P, said he was “endlessly sorry” for her death, and his lawyer called it a “tragic accident”. But Thomas P could not explain why he failed to wrap his freezing girlfriend in her emergency blanket before heading down the mountain without her. Earlier in their trek he had also told a police officer over the phone that they did not need any help, even though a rescue helicopter was made available to them.
I remember hearing about this one.
He had done it before with another woman, but she didn’t die. In the recent case, the dead woman’s family supported him. Even though he took their survival supplies. Very odd situation.
Her mom's issue is the media and courts treated her daughter like a lost sheep led up a mountain.
She was an experienced climber and they planned their trips together.
He didn't take the emergency supplies, he just didn't swaddle her like a baby in her own.
The helicopter call stuff was kind of shady tho, and rightfully why he was found guilty.
But it's not like the mom said he was innocent, she said it was likely an accident, because procedure in climbs like that is to leave someone behind, and she knew that because her daughter had been doing this long before the boyfriend.
But her comments got misrepresented for the headlines.
It all makes logical sense, it's just the people telling us about it care more about drama and clicks than informing people.
If you understand it, it becomes an incredibly boring story that doesn't stand out. Which is why TikTok went the complete opposite direction, and mainstream media is reporting on their nonsense for the clicks.
Quick edit:
Specifically for the emergency blanket part, the last stages of hypothermia makes you feel insanely hot.
The early stages cut off circulation to limbs to keep the torso warm, that's why frostbite effects the extremities, it's a trade off. When you're going to die from it, you're body can't squeeze you're arties off and all that "warm" blood floods to your limbs, causing them to quickly rise in temp while the vital parts get cold.
So she likely was bundled up just fine when he left her.
That's all normal stuff climbers know, but the media/courts seemed to be willfully ignorant of.
All the articles I've read say he never applied the emergency blanket, it was still packed away. Nor did he make her safe by building any kind of shelter or securing her against wind.
And then he also did not call for help until three hours after they decided they needed help, and rejected the helicopter rescue. None of those are normal things. Those are the actions of someone abandoning someone to die.
This is so fucking sexist.
Hey everyone, women are just as capable of surviving in the mountains as men!
There's some safety and ethical rules in the mountains. You don't leave your hiking/climbing partner unless you both agree it's fine. Gender of this partner doesn't matter. Guy leaving another guy is equally bad as guy leaving a woman. Women are not inherently more prone to dying in the mountains than men. The fact that everyone treats this as someone abandoning a helpless person is infuriating. It's shitty behavior but it would be equally shitty if this guy left his male friend or if she left him. It's 2026, this is fairly progressive space and still everyone looks at with "women need protecting" mindset. It's mind boggling.
When I see women in the mountains I don't think to myself "oh my god, they are here without supervision? hope they will be fine!". Am I the only one?
Yes, it is ethically wrong to leave anyone behind in the wilderness.
What has surfaced in the news more often recently is men doing this to women. Was that not clear from the article?
There was actually a case in Brazil recently where a girl left her male friend alone during a hike, and the guy got lost and stayed 5 days surviving alone in the jungle near the mountain until he was eventually found alive. Almost no news outlet mentions that he was abandoned, but there is a video from the girl who was supposed to be with him saying that she left him behind and out of her sight. No news outlet blamed the woman like they would if the gender roles had been reversed.
Was that not clear from the article?
No one throwing a fit about this article has actually read the article
Some women in the outdoors industry bridle at the gender stereotypes wrapped up in alpine divorce: chiefly, the assumption that a woman cannot take care of herself or has less experience outside than her male partner. “Believe it or not, we can do things that have nothing to do with men,” said Ellison, the Climbing editor. “I really struggle with saying ‘men do this,’ and ‘women do that,’ and those generalizations.”
Blair Braverman is a writer, adventurer and dogsled musher who has competed in the Iditarod and Kobuk 440. (She took 36th place in the 2019 Iditarod, becoming the first Jewish woman to finish the storied, 1,000-mile (1,609km) race.) “Personally, if I were with a man and he wandered away from me on a mountain, I’d be more worried for him than me,” she said. “I think it’s interesting that [the term] assumes that the woman is the one with less capability.”
If there is a feminist spin on alpine divorce, it’s what comes after the women are left behind. When her ex ditched her in Zion, MJ hiked alongside a friendly female stranger and her young son. Naomi helped the woman with vertigo in Arches. “It happened to me many years ago,” one user wrote in the comment section of the viral TikTok clip. “I met 2 girls on the mountain and told them what happened, and we walked down together. They wouldn’t let me go alone.”
The article also goes into this aspect of the conversation.
It's sexist in the way that it might depict only women suffering from this type of behavior, but I think that women do tend to be the major demographic that suffers from this type of behavior, which, to me, is a type of sexism that is nowhere near as harmful as the behavior it condemns. It's not saying they can't hike.
This type of abuse can happen literally anywhere. You're out in the city and you're not walking fast enough? Get ditched with no warning. And that's the problem. There is usually some modicum of control that the people ditching (you can read this as men) have over the situation that leaves the partner in a vulnerable state. Sometimes they drove. Sometimes they know the way. Sometimes they have the experience. It's an abuse tactic to do something like that.
So, idk man, calling this sexist and then pretending there's some unrelated problem to address is a weird take.
So...
They weren't in an exclusive relationship.
She told him to walk ahead without her.
And he talked to someone else since she told him not to walk with her, someone he seems to have met while waiting for her at the summit before going down.
Kind of sounds like she broke off a situationship on a hike. And immediately assumed if he talked to any woman then he was romantically interested in her, so their open relationship was never going to work anyways.
Even the actual alpine one where the woman was left in a blizzard recently and died, her parents have come out and said the infantilizing of their daughter was an insult to her memory.
Like, it should be a safe bet that anything that starts on TimToknis bullshit.
But yeah, big outdoorsy trips aren't for rocky relationships. Romantic or otherwise you need to be going with people you trust. Shit can get stressful and not everyone reacts well to stress. It's not the same thing as the same distance walk thru the park.
People are so weird. I once worked closely with a single woman, and the boss had a big Christmas party for the managers, and she brought a guy that she'd been dating for a couple months, and was getting close to.
For some reason that none of us ever learned, he decided to completely ignore her that night. He knew nobody at that party but her, and yet he pretended like he'd never seen her before. It wasn't a big party,maybe 20 people, so we ALL saw what was going on. Eventually, he took her home, but they never went out again.
I asked her about what happened, and he wouldn't discuss it. He dropped her off at home, and they never spoke about it on the ride home or after. The guy just decided to turn into a different person that night.
BTW, she was a really cool person, pretty, fashionable, great hair, super smart, funny, great job, owned her own house, etc. The loss was entirely his.
Ugh, that is the stupidest, irritating thing. I felt disgust through the screen.
Damn what a cowardly way to dump someone. Is it really that much of a pain in the ass to stick it out for a couple of days until you're not literally abandonning someone somewhere they didn't expect to be alone? Bunch of douchy and selfabsorbed asshats.
For context, angel's landing is one of probably the top 5 most famous hikes in the country. It's so popular that they have timed entry, and you have to book a time well in advance. It would be very, very, very hard to get lost, you can see the spot you started from pretty much the whole way, you are part of a steady stream of people, and there's cell service. There is no "alone" on that hike.
People have died on that hike, but if you exclude suicide and people who were intentionally going off trail to get pictures closer to cliff edges, it's very unlikely. You are probably safer getting dumped there than at a restaurant in a part of town you aren't familiar with.
I would not put that anywhere near the same category as guy who left his girlfriend on a mountaineering expedition.
My comment was mainly aimed at the general thought of just abandonning someone on any hike, not necessarily this particular one, but the whole "alpine divorce" thing in itself.
Or to call it off before you start hiking. Or even to stick together not happy and not liking each other on your way back
Just a few weeks ago I saw a dude have an argument with his partner on top of Cradle Mountain and then head down before her. We kept an eye on her to make sure she made it down OK (sketchy down climbing). He was at the bottom of the steep bit on his phone when we got there.. She caught up and they seemed fine, but it was a weird vibe.
I went with my ex to a local waterfall once. It was pretty dry, so I wanted to explore the top of the falls a bit since it's normally not accessible. It's very flat up there, and I kept back from the edge since I don't like heights anyway, but she got mad at me for being up there since she didn't feel comfortable coming out with me.
So a couple minutes later, I'm done poking about, and I turn around and she's nowhere to be seen. Now I'm worried she went over the side and something happened to her. I started looking over the edge of the hill leading up to the falls and trying to see if she's down there, but there was enough water to still be spraying the rocks. My foot slides out on a wet patch, and now I'm falling down the rock face!
I crashed off at least 3 ledges on my way down, and was flipping over and trying to grab onto things to catch myself, but there was nothing but rock and moss, but I finally come to a stop. I have no clue how I didn't die or break anything. It was one of the scariest moments of my life. After I checked on my own life, I saw she wasn't there, so I made my way to the car. She was there just being annoyed.
She seemed to think I deserved it for not listening to her for saying it was dangerous, while it was not the activity I was doing that led to me falling, but that I thought I needed to be looking for her after she disappeared without saying she was going to the car. I don't think she must have realized it was not just one rock I fell off of, but probably at least 10+ feet of rock, but needless to say I wasn't very appreciative of her lack of concern. I was just grateful to be alive at that point. I was sore for a few days and had some bruises that lasted a couple months. Was I a jerk? I don't feel so, but I don't believe remote places in the outdoors are the place to put arguments ahead of everyone's safety either way. If I would have gotten hurt badly, who knows how long she would have sat there before looking for me.
I mean what else are you gonna do? Have an escalating fight while you are in an emotionally unstable state? Walking away to calm down is just the right thing to do often, that doesnt change just because you are on a hike.
The cases in the article sound like there is more to them though.
And some men wonder why some women would choose a bear.
A bear would totally run away and abandon you on a hiking trail. No difference there.
Speaking from experience.
Astounding that there are men in here defending these dickbags left right and centre. And presumably other men just like yep good point bro, technically correct. Please dump me and run off a fucking cliff you spineless turdweasels
This idea that it's totally normal and cool to start a hike with someone and then decide to leave them behind is mindboggling.
Yeah. Even if you figure out halfway through that you hate spending time with them you just fucking walk the rest of the way with them in silence. Sometimes things don't go how you hoped and you have a bad day. Deal with it.
Lemmy is better than Reddit but there are still terrible trolls and awful people here.
MJ and a new partner – he was not exactly her boyfriend, and the pair were not exclusive...[MJ] could not shake the feeling that something was “off”; indeed, MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women.
This is like saying you agreed to go dutch on a date, and then feeling that something was "off" because you couldn't shake the feeling he was intending to split the bill.
No shit?
Some of these comments are absolutely disgusting, many of you guys desperately need to talk to a therapist. If you read a story like this and feel the need to defend your gender identity, you have some deep-seated insecurity which you should take seriously before it starts harming your relationships with others. I am saying this as a man who had deep-seated insecurity which took a heavy toll on my relationships before seeking years of therapy. It's not as expensive as it sounds, I promise, and it could totally change your life for the better.
Some people, not anyways men, have been taught, rather mercilessly, that they have to be self sufficient. These people get aggravated, even angry when someone else fails to live up to the standard that they (unfairly) were forced to. There can be an instinctive feeling that it is somehow an injustice to them.
That doesn't excuse abandoning someone in the wilderness. Often these people struggle to learn to be a kind helper.
Also, none of this is meant to excuse the behavior. It is possible to understand "why" without condoning it. When confronting this it is important to be firm that it is unacceptable, as well as understanding that it may be a struggle to relearn.
Balanced take. This kind of thing is very veryserious. But also a dilution of the term Alpine Divorce, which people have died from.
I would never leave my girlfriend stranded on a hike. I need her for if there is a bear.
Co-opting alpine divorce, which regularly involves a murder attempt, feels weird? Just call it the sierra split.
I do wonder how much of this is a cheapening of the weekend getaway, where you'd go to a B&B upstate, find out your potential partner snores, drinks to much, is rude to service workers, or views a toothbrush as optional. You'd sigh and split. It's just a bad weekend.
But with this, camping and hiking is a complication. You're drinking warm filtered water from a Nalgene, eating granola because someone forgot to bring a lighter. Also, it's raining and all your socks are wet. Did you bring anything to wash dishes? Ah, there are no dishes. You smell like smoke and are covered in sand.
Granted, you can do camping/hiking well, but I'd bet some of these cases are from people doing it poorly, trying to save a buck by avoiding more expensive weekend getaways.