One would think in a community that says no ML they would just ban on sight
MeanwhileOnGrad

"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether it be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users, as it handwaves their extremism.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in arguments that lack mutual agreement.
Brigading/Trolling — If you're here because this community was linked in another thread, please refrain from maliciously voting, commenting, or manipulating the post in any way. This includes alt accounts. All votes are public, and if you are found to be brigading, you will be banned. Good-faith and honest communication is an exception.
Tankies can explain their views, but may be criticised or challenged for them. Any minor infraction of the rules may result in a warning and possibly a temporary ban.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically last only 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction doubles the duration. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
the frog is boiling
I think part of this is the losing of hope within the left in systems that aren't more forceful like ML, due to the failures of the progressive capitalist/socdem/demsocs in going against fascist and imperialist policy. Also because literally Cuba good (hot take!!!), as much as any other examples of ML end up in corrupt leaders and violence (Laos being anti-LGBT at least, and don't get me started on how China isn't even really ML anymore but rather a capitalist fascist country in the skin of a socialist country).
Another part is probably how Lemmy moderators are structurally cops, and All Cops Are Bastards.
Mods have a monopoly on the digital equivalent of violence (banning and deletion) and are expected and required to unilaterally use that monopoly to police the community. They have nearly unilateral discretion over how incidents are handled, and complaints are primarily taken care of through mods discussing internally.
Communities may elect their mods, but given communities are defined by those who are not banned by mods, mods can use their discretion to ban dissenters whenever they can get away with it while only banning supporters when they have to. Thus communities evolve into ones that (vocally or passively) support their mods as long as those mods aren't much more egregious than they have been so far. The vocal support then reinforces the mods' beliefs in their righteousness, justifying their strictness, until they are a police state.
Good mods get disgusted by this pipeline at some point during the process and stop being mods. Crappy mods speedrun the pipeline and become sad little kings of sad little hills. But insidious mods go through the pipeline slowly, creating an oasis of liberal stability where those that fit themselves within the mods' Overton Window can have a flourishing community (hi goat!).
And it's hard to organize servers any other way because by default with our current capitalism digital infrastructure, the admin is the owner and users are producer-consumers who have no tools to project political power beyond what the admin deigns to bestow on them. Because the users are given no way to organize politically they devolve into chaos, so the admin makes use of the tools they have and polices the users or imports the position of moderator so approved users can police the other users.
So over time, communities on the internet either collapse or have mods who grow from being willing to exist as liberal authorities to sympathizing with authoritarianism. So what anti-authoritarian doctrines there were that helped sustain the liberal oasis as long as they did start to feel naive or restrictive, while there is long precedent for silencing the complainers who rail against the edges of that increasingly less liberal oasis. And so authoritarianism arrives without fanfare, and those embarrassing rules that used to define the community are buried without ceremony.
At the start there were thousands of frogs in the pot. As it became warm, frogs started jumping out, but I did not jump because I was not that kind of frog. As it became hot, more frogs jumped out, but I did not jump because I was not that kind of frog. And now it's boiling, and my brain is too fried for me to ever want to jump anymore.
"To avoid infighting, we've decided to collaborate with the Nazis" – leftist edition
The wildest thing is that db0 often argues with Tankies about unity as they repeatedly tell him that they'll kill anarchists if given the chance.
Yet for whatever reason, the few anarchists left on dbzer0 and db0 himself insist on aligning with them. https://hexbear.net/post/7507322/6879735

Literally reads like:
"In every case in history, authoritarian communists have purged the anarchists after the success of the revolution. So you should accept our blanket leadership because otherwise we will be forced to purge you after the success of the revolution. And even if you do submit to us, you will be forever at our mercy because if we ever deem you as a threat then we will eliminate you."
Authoritarians in every form just can't seem to see through their own narcissism...
And yet dbzer0 insists on federating and unifying with tankies. Oblivious.
I gave db0 just a smidge of evidence that tankies are coordinating a takeover of Dbzer0, including dbzer0 admins aiding the takeover. Naturally, this is Db0's reply
He's kinda given up, sad. He'd rather own the libs than admit he's being treated like every single anarchist in history. Bizarre how they keep falling for betrayal. Perhaps this time the Authoritarians won't eat me! Literal insanity.
I find their obsession with the term "libs" fascinating.
It has a very different meaning outside of the US. Which goes to show that their whole "but my global south!!" is fake and performative.
It's the outside-the-US meaning that anarchists would typically use, and the US-centric definition is effectively a subset of the general definition when viewed from a leftist perspective, as they're both capitalist with minimal regulation, just in the US it's got the added connotations of being less homophobic and racist etc. then the centre of the Overton window, whereas classic liberalism isn't incompatible with racism and homophobia etc..
Mhmm.
I sense embrace-extend-extinguish.
Anytime I see anyone use the word "lib" or "liberal" used the way these people do, I can't help but think of Alex Jones. Not really the guy you want your behavior to remind people of, I think.
same, only because the conservatives use "lib as insult too" see the common denominator. but they add "shitlib" as alternative. by in far US, has never been liberal in anyway, political or otherwise outside of a very small nich groups.
The fact that he uses the term "turbolibs" proves he is already infected with tankie brainrot.
we're not going to ban tankies on sight
But the start of the blurb on leftymemes says
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of “ML” (read: Dengist) influence.
... ???
Who are "turbolibs" and why are they trying to keep them happy? ???
??????????????????
Bizarre how they keep falling for betrayal.
Yeah. Mind-blowing.
He’d rather own the libs than admit he’s being treated like every single anarchist in history.
Nah, with terminally online cosplayers, the result is almost always "Mask off, actually was aligned with tankies all along" rather than "Principled opposition getting betrayed after alliance of convenience". That's more of a real-world anarchist pitfall.
Tankies give them asspats and don't demand anything of them, while evil liberals and demsocs actually demand some small baseline of action. If one's interest in anarchism is more the sense of community than ideology, they pitch towards tankies hard. The reverse is rarer, despite tankies also being largely of the same mentality, because anarchism is less inherently tribalistic than ML insanity about orthodoxy and revisionism, making it less appealing to a tribalist mindset already immersed in such concepts.
On the other hand, I've known a number of tankies through the years who pitched hard-right once they found community with online right-wingers.
On the other hand, I've known a number of tankies through the years who pitched hard-right once they found community with online right-wingers.
That doesn't surprise me at all. Authoritarian-minded narcissists don't care about ideological consistency, ethical reasoning, or contextual realism. They just care about the authoritarian grift that feeds their insatiable egos.
They call the "horseshoe politics" argument "both-sides-ism" when it's actually the opposite. "Both sides are bad" is an attempt to equate left-wing with right-wing politics to justify doomerism, complacency, and cynical accelerationism while claiming some sort of moral exceptionism (my ends justify my means because both sides are bad).
"Horseshoe politics" on the other hand calls out ideological and methodological extremism on both sides. Its main claim is that authoritarianism is bad, regardless of which side of the political spectrum it falls on.
It also comes as no surprise that these same types of "leftists" never call out trump, maga, and the actual fascists. No, they focus all their ire on corporate dems (who are deserving of critique within their own contexts, of course, but not to the exclusion of far-right conservatism), calling them "liberal fascists," whatever the fuck that is, and watering down the term "fascist" so that we all sound like loonies whenever we call out actual fascism (such as maga/trumpism).
they also are infiltrating the more"neutral" political memes sub too, i noticed it has very tankie postings. after thier tankie instances have mostly been blocked by most fed users, i assume they arnt getting much engagement.
I got the funniest responses to this comment. It was so bad that by the time I tried to respond, the mods had deleted them all already lmao
Afterthought [from both our experience] : maybe they're just prejudiced and ableist against autistics.
:3
... and/or our blunt honesty, and our critiques of systems and logic.
They were ableist towards you as well?
Not to the point of post/reply removal nor banning, yet. But I get that vibe. At least enough to offer the plausibility. As may fit your example experience.