A Boring Dystopia

The Pokémon card example is ludicrous - aside from the fact that CCG cards are not “wealth”, or the fact that no one would offer $500 for a card that is only worth $50, a single buyer does not make a market or set the value. Stocks, the source of most outrageous wealth, by definition have a market value, and even the most frothy of assets don’t swing 10x in such a short period of time.

The mom calling about selling the childhood home is very real, in fact it already happens! Guess your friend is unfamiliar with property taxes. My home has tripled in value and the government appraised value went up by a smaller amount, and now I pay taxes. When my mortgage is fully paid off, I will still owe the local government taxes every year. All those “tax free” states lean on regressive taxes like sales tax and property taxes to avoid collecting progressive income taxes, so this problem is even worse in those states.

A while back I owned a small business, and because I didn’t pay myself in stock, I had to pay taxes every year based on how much my company profited. My business partner and I would do a distribution every year to pay those taxes. We paid more every year in taxes on our modest business than Tesla paid last year on $5.7B in income. Also, company “worth” for private businesses is based on appreciated assets and cash on hand… a business owner who “lost” 90% of the business value of a two decade old business in a year has much, much bigger problems than unrealized gains taxes.

Middle class people are already paying wealth taxes. Mutual funds are taxed on unrealized gains all the time, albeit at capital gains rates (because we value capital more than labor). Property taxes are paid on the biggest source of wealth most people own. Even poor people are paying annual taxes or fees on their cars.

I agree, your friend is a moron, but I think most people knew that the second they saw “ancap”.

A wealth tax wouldn't apply to normal people below an obscene threshold. And you wouldn't tax a primary residence at all, as is already the case with our tax code on near every score. You wouldn't tax a baseball card collection.

But if a person put a bunch of paypal stock into an IRA account, and it turned into 5 billion dollars later, you would find a way to tax most all of that. If bezos' worth increased by billions, then a portion above an obscene level would be taxed, often exempting the first so much then graduating higher levels, as is customary in taxation here.

You are excusing the super rich from taxes by associating it with hypothetical unfair taxations against normal people for smaller amounts. Which is the same way they got rid of the estate tax, by lying about who paid the estate tax, claiming family farms and small business paid it, when it was only obscenely rich people that paid it.

Now, no one pays it. An heiress just inherited 200 million on her 19th birthday or something, not the entire estate just a piece of it, without paying a dime in tax, thanks to the dishonest arguments mirroring the ones you made on this in the first half of your piece at least.

Bezos paid 600 dollars in 2020, a year his net worth skyrocketed, and where he spent an incredible amount of money he got without getting a paycheck. He paid less in taxes than we do, not just per capita, total. He claimed the child tax credit. When your net worth increases by millions above millions, it needs to be taxed, whether it's when they borrow against the value of that which is where they now realize much of their income that is tax free now, or whether it's regardless of it being realized.

If the value they were taxed on an increased price of an asset fell later, they would be able to subtract that back 3 years and forward ten years to offset other taxable income, that's the way it's already set up, itself quite unfair as working people get no such consideration to only pay taxes on profits, which would be akin to only paying taxes on wages after paying all of your core bills.

In 1950, the majority of taxes, like 90 percent, came from businesses, now 90 percent is ripped from working people, and the richer they are, the less they pay above a certain threshold, something has to change.

The whole reason the right wants to abolish the "welfare state" is to have a pipeline of poor and hungry children to sell as sex slaves.

Anybody who complains about "the welfare state" just wants cheaper access to child sex slaves.

Change my mind.

Start taxing 20% from $1B+ and I think 99.999999% of us are fine.

Would making the law kick in after a certain amount of net worth be the answer in that situation?

https://budgetlab.yale.edu/research/buy-borrow-die-options-reforming-tax-treatment-borrowing-against-appreciated-assets

It's actually a real thing.

Since taxes are paid when an asset is sold, not when it goes up in value, your net worth goes up with no tax liability change. When you die, the purchase price for tax purposes resets. Now the inheritor sells the assets. Since the sale price is essentially the same as the taxation price, there's no taxes.
You're borrowing today's money against tomorrow's value and taking the difference out of your death messing with taxes to free up the value.
From a financial perspective the time horizon for return doesn't matter, only that the return is balanced against the time. From that perspective, the people giving the loan have no reason to really care since it makes them look good and they'll at least not be working there when and if it goes wrong.

They get a painting worth 10K, get a loan for that, then get it appraised for 30K, get a loan on that from somewhere else and pay off the other one. That's one idea.

The second is they like assets that provide passive income and appreciate. You'll find a lot get into land as well and rental units.

For the individual wealthy, they aren't. Some loans might get paid off by taking another loan, but the goal is to take the loan to the grave. The loan would get paid after death because then the estate can sell the stocks without paying any capital gains tax.

Let's say you buy 1 million worth of stocks. The day before you die that stock is worth 51 million. If you cash out that stock you're paying capital gains tax on 50 million. Let's say the capital gains tax is 20% which means you'd pay 10 mil in taxes. So you get 41 million from the sale. Let's say the loan is exactly 41 million so to pay off the loan you get nothing.

But if you die and that stock goes to the estate they haven't gained any capital from the stock so when they sell it they pay no tax on it. The estate then sells the stock tax free to pay off whatever debt there was (the estate sells only 41 million worth of stocks keeping the 10 million on stocks). That 10 million is effectively free money that goes to the inheritor.

Basically it's all just tax evasion for the ultrawealthy. Except it's legal so technically it's not tax evasion. And realistically the numbers are even more astronomical than what I used as an example.

This is u ironically why the rich should support a wealth tax.

Yeah because Communism worked so well for Russia, China, North Korea, etc. Communism is NEVER the answer, since it will ALWAYS get abused.

Oh no, AI on Lemmy. It's joever :(