this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2026
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[–] 2FortGaming@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Who cares lol

Games are about having fun, not market potential or whatever.

[–] FarceOfWill 18 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (3 children)

As an outsider the reason i domt bother with these is you have to know every damn iframe and move flow timing perfectly to even know what the game is.

Theres one point in this article about a practice mode thats totally wrong. Aint no one ever gonna use that, especially a newbie. Then a later one saying single player should teach you this stuff. This is right.

Reimagining these games as a 2d souls like would be incredible, they do teach the mechanics across the game. But then, those games have loot and xp to soften the harsh reality of the skill ceiling. Would fighting games lovers accept that? I think no.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 7 points 6 hours ago

As an outsider the reason i domt bother with these is you have to know every damn iframe and move flow timing perfectly to even know what the game is.

No you don't. There are very few moves I remember exact numbers for. I know my fastest button, I know what's unsafe on block, and that's really all that's needed. And it's something that can easily be learned by feel too.

Wikis exist as a reference point, but no one is expected to memorize them.

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 10 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

The problem with these games is ranked online multiplayer. Back in the arcade days no one knew the damn frame timings. People just played and had a good time with each other in person. Console ports brought that experience home so you could enjoy it with friends and family, without needing a roll of quarters. No one had any issues with anxiety over these games because you were just hanging out with friends playing a game together. Sometimes you won, sometimes you lost. If your brother’s Ryu was too good, you just challenged him to beat you with a different character.

Online ranked play takes all that away. It makes the competition serious even if you don’t want it to be. Now you’re always being matched up against an equally skilled opponent playing their best character. You never feel like you’re making progress because every match is tough as nails. For people who thrive on competition, that’s great. For everyone else it really sucks!

[–] hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

This is legit. I remember playing Soul Calibur 3 I think on PS2 pretty regularly with a couple of friends. One of them owned the game and would stomp us until I asked to borrow it for a while so the other two of us could get good. A few weeks later I was doing bomb and air grab loops with Taki and we were pretty evenly matched, while other friends who would play occasionally were pretty easy to beat. There was no big competitive online play, we got better by figuring out how to counter each other because we had similar amounts of experience with the game.

I'm not sure how you replicate that experience with randos.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

That's why SF6 has freak fights, MK has challenge towers and king of the hill, DBFZ has weird random modes on rotation, etc.

[–] xep@discuss.online 12 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

And that's fine, not every game has to be for everyone.

[–] popcar2@piefed.ca 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

It can be a problem if the company is trying to bring in and maintain new users, which is kinda why the article was made. 2XKO laid off most of their team and scaled back development because it wasn't successful. It's also hurting indies like Rivals of Aether 2 which seems to be doing OK but not as good as the first game.

[–] Crankenstein@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

That's a problem with the industry and economics that don't allow for a variety of creative expression, not with the game genre.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 21 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Fighting games in 2026 are floundering, with everything not called Street Fighter 6 relegated to the trash bin of history.

You lost me on the first sentence. Are we pretending Guilty Gear didn't just go from being an extremely niche IP to a household name last generation? While there are issues worth talking about, fighting games have been steadily growing year-over-year with no sign of slowing down.

[–] Ryoae@piefed.social 1 points 3 hours ago

Spares me from reading the article. It tires me when authors have to go the doomer-route and saying things are dying because they themselves, probably haven't touched fighting games in a while. And just because they haven't, then it must be a dying trend.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 6 points 8 hours ago

Yeah, it's an article that makes you think it cites its sources and did its homework, but it doesn't even examine why SF2's success is so high, like that arcade revenue in the 90s is basically a cheat code compared to selling copies of console games, or that SF2 had a number of versions across that entire decade that all factor into that several billion dollars it earned. What the article refers to as "the dark ages" is actually a different era than what most would assign to the moniker to, misnomer though it might be. And it also states things as facts that aren't; not just your Guilty Gear example but that somehow SF6 is the most homogenized SF game somehow. This feels like the author is just salty that they don't care for the last few years' offerings personally.

[–] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 8 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (3 children)

As someone who doesn't pay attention to niche fighting games: Guilty Gear games are still being made? I thought they were a retro game or something. I think you're overestimating it's prominence. The only moden fighting games that come to mind as someone who has no interest in competitve play are Street Fighter, Mortal Combat (and Injustice), Smash Bros, and 2XKO. I'm don't have confidence to say that fighting games aren't growing, but the only news/attention I've seen for the genre since the launch of Street Fighter 6 has been a couple 2XKO trailers.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 7 hours ago

Guilty Gear Strive is a really fucking good fighting game

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago

Guilty Gear is now a multi-million seller when every previous game didn't even crack a tenth of that. Yes, what they did to Guilty Gear demonstrably worked. Tekken and Dragon Ball FighterZ are both huge. If I were a betting man, I'd say Marvel Tokon will do about as well as any of the other most successful fighting games out there.

[–] FarceOfWill 5 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

The closest thing ive heard spoken of in nornal gaming circles is Sifu, and i think that has some progression over a single run as the character ages.

[–] _Lory98_@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

I honestly don't see how single player "content" could be of any help. Sure, situational training like Strive and a few other games have (UNI I think had it?) would be nice to have, but I think the main obstacle for a lot of players is the (gameplay) interaction with another real person. I can't say how other genres fix this (or if they even do), but my guess is that the mechanics themselves are less restrictive and a bit more forgiving.

Also, personally, I prefer buying characters for relatively cheap rather than having the usual f2p predatory crap. They should obviously be free for training tho.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The article acknowledges the fact that the most fondly remembered singleplayer modes are the ones with unique twists... then proceeds to write off everyone asking to see more of that.

Singleplayer can never be a substitute for a human opponent. CPUs are just never going to play the way humans do, and they're never going to adequately prepare you for them.

But that's precisely why people loved the modes that didn't try to take it seriously and instead offered something unusual and different. Lean into things singleplayer can do well, instead of trying to chase after things it can't.

[–] _Lory98_@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I agree. I'm not someone who is interested in the singleplayer modes, so my opinion probably means nothing here, but since the gameplay is inherently dependent on a human opponent, I feel like they need to be more than just VS matches against the CPU, to either experiment with the gameplay or introduce you to the story and characters.

[–] hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

The idea of buying characters is itself wild. Games as a service has really screwed up player expectations.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Games that are intended to be long-term projects with big updates and expansions over time have to monetize those expansions somehow. Character DLC still feels like the most equitable way to do it, I'd rather periodically toss a few bucks at actual content than be milked for empty calorie gacha, battle passes, FOMO rotating shops, or whatever else actual live service games are doing these days to try and exploit whales.

[–] hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Honestly I think this is where the industry is falling flat. Games used to be a thing where they'd put one out and once it was out that was it. They didn't spend the next 10 years adding features, that's what a new game was for.

I don't think a world where a company like Square releases dozens of great games in a decade can coexist with the model of continuing to add features to a game that's already out. Personally, I'd rather see the evolution of an idea across several iterations than a constant replacement of parts.

It used to be if you liked a game you could see what led to it by playing earlier games in the series. Now those games seldom exist and instead you have the most recent version of one game and no access to any previous version.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 3 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Since we're specifically talking about fighting games, that very much wasn't true. This is the genre that brought you Street Fighter II: The World Warrior, Street Fighter II': Champion Edition, Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting, Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers, and Super Street Fighter II Turbo. And the final product is much better off for it - World Warrior may have been revolutionary for its time but the game also had a lot of serious problems that have aged like mud.

One and done makes sense for single-player titles. But for a competitive multiplayer scene to last, developers can't just hope that 1.0 is perfect on the first try - it never is. Just putting the game out in the hands of players who will break it to pieces is the best way to get data on what needs to be tweaked and refined for the next patch.

[–] hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Street Fighter did have a bit of a weird naming thing where we were all like "when is one of these going to be called 3?", but those are all different games on different cartridges. Same with MK3 versus Ultimate MK3. Like, yeah, they've got a lot of the same bones but they didn't release one broken, update it for 10 years and then never release anything else.

The SF2 situation wouldn't happen in the same way today because those would all be DLCs or updates. Or like, paid alternate skins and new characters.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 1 hour ago

The SF2 situation wouldn't happen in the same way today because those would all be DLCs or updates.

Yes, exactly. Not having to pay full price to buy the game all over again for these updates is way better for the consumer.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

At the same time though, I wish we could retain old versions, like how Ultra Street Fighter IV did. I know doing so is harder, but you can lose a thing you enjoy to a new version of the game that you don't. I didn't like Strive season 2, but fortunately, I liked every other season. I feel like Strive is in a really good place right now, and I'm nervous about this 2.0 update they're talking about. If it's a major update to the software and not the gameplay, then hell yeah, I'm on board, but I'm nervous that it could be another season 2.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I think this is something that should be handled at the platform level, Steam and consoles should just let you freely roll back to any version of the game. Keep every revision archived for preservation's sake.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 56 minutes ago

Yeah, can't argue with that. But I wouldn't really mind which direction the solution came from.

[–] _Lory98_@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I mean... I'm not saying it's good, but considering most games wouldn't get free characters as updates (I think only MBTL did it, and it's probably because most of the free characters are from Fate), I think it's better to be able to optionally buy a set of characters if you want to play them, instead of having to buy a whole new version of the game to continue playing.

[–] hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Updates suck. Gaming was better when they didn't exist.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

This is a woefully bad take. The best fighting games got to where they are after a lot of iteration and refinement. The final version of Skullgirls is my favorite game of all time, but 1.0 was straight up broken.

[–] hzl@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Do you know how many Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat games we had in the 90s?

Before the current era of endless updates, games had to be ready to go when they shipped. If it was broken, they'd delay and fix the worst issues. Early iterations of a series tended to be a little more feature-light than later iterations, but that's how you ended up with multiple installments per decade.

Compare this with the modern model where it's half expected that games will be broken on release and it's all but unheard of to get a sequel within a few years.

Having lived in both environments, the old system had way better results. Without it we wouldn't have some of the well developed genres we do today.

Imagine if instead of making piles of DLC and remasters Bethesda had just started working on Elder Scrolls VI right after Skyrim. We'd probably be on like VIII by now. Instead they went from horse armor to rereleasing everything they've ever made, with a shitty MMO in between.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 1 hour ago

Do you know how many Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat games we had in the 90s?

Yes, and I remember that Street Fighter II: The World Warrior, Street Fighter Alpha: Warrior's Dreams, and Street Fighter III: New Generation all sucked. Super Street Fighter II Turbo, Street Fighter Alpha 2/3, and Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike were the good ones.

It was always expected that the first revision would have growing pains. Now we don't have to pay full price for the polished and improved version. That's way better than the old model.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Also, personally, I prefer buying characters for relatively cheap rather than having the usual f2p predatory crap. They should obviously be free for training tho.

As someone who has been playing fighting games on and off since 1995, the idea that non-dlc characters are "f2p predatory crap" is wild to me.

[–] _Lory98_@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 6 hours ago

That's not what I meant.

The article mentions paying for cosmetics instead of characters. With how f2p/live-service games are currently designed, I'd imagine that means things like battle passes (which are present already in some games like SF6 and GBFVS), rotating stores and/or lootboxes.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

I think the biggest thing it can help with is steady escalation of difficulty.

In level 3, you learn how to grapple. The level has a growing number of enemies that can only be beaten by grappling.

In level 4, you learn about pokes and block punishes; and enemies will use different attacks that can test your block (but grappling is set aside for the moment so players aren’t overloaded)

Oh, and crucially: This isn’t put into the set dressing of a big square stage with a “Training Step 5 of 182” HUD and a “Good!” and jump to the next lesson each time the player executes a mechanic once.

Have the president’s daughter kidnapped, send a horde of zombies, make the player a detective finding clues in the bad part of town. Break it up with a locked door puzzle, climbing sections, etc. The lessons of interest learned from every other action adventure game.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world -1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

After playing Arc Raiders, I kind of wonder if the newer generation of AI could put together a challenge that actually fits the holy grail of fighting Game singleplayer.

An AI could be given a special avatar that challenges a particular theme of the player’s development, being strong in some regards but not in others. Think one enemy that’s a crawling ninja with super fast movement, another who’s a crawling hulk with high-range attacks.

The AI could also be guided by metrics of how fast its opponents learn mechanics or how much they enjoy the match, rather than “how do I beat this player”. I’d feel safe thinking a predictable AI would not be judged well.

EDIT: I honestly do get the knee jerk downvotes regarding AI, given everything it means in recent years. But let’s not forget it also refers to computer opponents in video games (which admittedly may see advances due to current mostly-icky tech)

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

You phrased it as "the newer generation of AI", so it was unclear what you meant, but it seemingly referred to the AI we hear about all too often these days in the news. I do think there's more room to get closer to approximating a human opponent in fighting games, and I know how I'd attempt to tackle it at a high level, but it must be harder than I think it is, or it would have been done by now; one potential pitfall would be having to update it every time you put out a balance patch, because that would affect how the computer player would have to behave.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Well, that’s the good part. I don’t think AI will ever replicate the kinds of full-system dynamics that occur in ranked modes, but I DO think it could make for an interesting challenge when the goal is to reduce the game state to just a few techniques the game is trying to teach the player.

For instance, an AI playing as Guile that can only use Flash Kick and Sonic Boom, and teaches players to counter him by spotting out his charging and blocking what comes through.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Even that is tricky though, because now you have to program the computer player to take bait. A computer Guile that can tell when you're blocking and when you're not could be just about unbeatable, and a human player can't tell that, so they have to guess. In any case, I think the genre's single player modes are lacking because we've only been taking them seriously for about 15 years. NetherRealm does what they do well, but they could still stand to do a better job of diagetically teaching you through the story mode like you're saying. SF6 has its RPG mode, which I think is a better idea on paper than it is in how they executed it. RGG is talking a big game about the single player offering in the new Virtua Fighter, and I believe they'll probably do a great job at it, because if you fork the code for Yakuza, you're most of the way to a single player Virtua Fighter already; just make the plot something like Blood Sport.