/0 Governance

I would be opposed to full-defederation, since there is still a lot of good users on feddit. I think removing those communities is a good middle ground.

I am not a member of your server, but I think it's amongst the top 4 best servers on the threadiverse. I have a great deal of respect for your server and the communities that have come to be on it. I would advise that when dealing with a -----bar on the fediverse, be that a nazi-bar, a zionist-bar, or any other kind of authoritarian-bar, the smaller concern isn't if there's things on it your users will miss (with the threadiverse, those things are communities) and the bigger concern is how the problem figures that have coagulated in that bar act and behave when they engage with the things originating on your server. I commend the desire to do this gracefully, but if you're going to limit yourselves to blocking communities (which will ultimately limit your own users more than feddit.org's users, though I'm not sure your users will be bothered or that their users will notice), I think you ABSOLUTELY MUST plan a period of time to revisit this. I'd probably say 1 month. If next month you feel that what you're seeing on your server is improved in the way you want it to, then leave it be, and if not then de-federate.

Otherwise, I would recommend immediate defederation if this is a recurring problem. These fediverse servers all act as garden parties. Blocking communities at other garden parties is less effective at combating bad behavior than not letting people through the gate in your garden. If this path is followed, I'd recommend maintaining channels of communication between the admins of both instances for 6 months to see if and how things change.

Again. I am not a member here. More of an outside observer with a ton of respect with a little bit of input after years of being in online spaces and having very little tolerance for bad faith behavior. You can take or reject these observations depending on how you align with them. Hell, I may even be full of shit. But one of us leftists' greatest weaknesses and greatest strength is our tolerance. The strength is in that it helps us build coalitions and confront our own biases. The weakness is that bad faith actors exploit this to string us along and keep making our spaces worse on purpose, so I tend to support a relatively strict federation/defederation policy and to let users find the admin teams that align best to their own desired defederation policy.

I agree that these communities should be blocked, however I am much more in favor of defederating Feddit as a whole and not just banning these communities. This is because it is Feddit as a platform who enables this behavior, and who ultimately is suppressing anti-Zionist and antifascist voices, while making bad faith arguments to defend Zionism. Including threatening and ultimately defederating other instances for calling them out on it as well as their admins coming here to apologize for Zionism.

The problems with Feddit run much deeper than a few communities being run by Zionist apologists. They run as deep as the management of the site itself. So blocking these communities isn't enough. I believe more will spring up in the future, not necessarily to replace them but because their userbase is predominantly Zionists or Zionist apologists.

They are bad news, we don't need them, and they clearly don't want us. Their admin agreeing with a known Zionist troll and implying we wish to cause harm to Israeli citizens just further proves this:

Feddit is bad news, more than just a few communities there, if they don't do serious work to change we shouldn't be connected with them. If anyone here really wants to be a part of Feddit that badly, you can make an account there or a server that federates with it, likewise with any feddit user who wishes to be on dbzer0.

id rather get into arguments with zionists than stick my head in the sand and hope they change on their own.

They say they are just complying with German, Austrian, and Swiss laws. If criticising Israel is illegal under said laws, I'd rather just shut down feddit.org entirely than comply. If it were me.

Shore up the yardarms, me hearties. We need to rid ourselves of a few fascists.

If feddit.org is harboring these ass-bags, then they're part of the problem. The issue I see with only banning the communities from showing here is that the users within those communities don't likely know they've been censured.

Playing devil's advocate for my own stance, I should say that the "right" thing to do would be to give them enough rope to hang themselves from the yardarm themselves. In other words, if they're feddit.org user and start spouting Zionist shit on db0, then they're probably someone that should be outright disallowed.

Unsure if I'm allowed to participate here, so delete please if inappropriate.

I have always been of the impression that banning single accounts reactively to what they post is more work but also more impactful in terms of teaching people to view a problematic world view with the required precision in choosing to express their views.

On the one hand a blanket ban decreases engagement and encourages radicalization through isolation.

On the other hand would engaging with them allow people to see what precisely is a balanced take with precision to what you want to say.

You showed evidence from the modlog that exists only because people were able to engage, stopping that would reduce workload for mods but reduce engagement in political discussion.

Lastly, in this lost you went and made a more precisee statement about who needs fighting in Israel, which was encouraged by the modlog morsels. So again I ask: is that not useful? It teaches to avoid overgeneralization, which a lot of people need very much to learn.

Our German politicians for example. they, like most of our populace, react reflexively negative to anything anti Semitic. Because of our shared cultural shame around the genocide. On the other hand we see ideally politicians acting line we did back then and feel as uneasy as you do. So we do what Germans to, we find a more precise way to express what we see. Overgeneralization of redderic against Jews is bad, specification of anti Israeli genocide sentiment good.

I think it would be in the interest of your cause not to blanket ban and instead add another well balanced volunteer mod to your ranks. :)

I vote to defederate the whole instance as well.

I forgot about that instance after they did their "compliance" requirement against free speech lol.

As a not-a-db0-member, thank you for your attention on this matter.

(yes, I get the irony)

Just defed them.

Yeah ditch em. No space for folks like that.

I have no say in governance decisions here but for context, I have all of feddit completely blocked because I could not tolerate the bullshit that came across my feed originating from that imstance. 🤮

I would suggest members of db0 vote for defereration in spite of the implications for the network.

Actually with their response to this being even more Zionazi bullshit, can we please just defed?

voting to defed the instance, we should not tolerate any instance that actively chooses to harbor fascists, and the admins seem to largely agree with the decisions the mods of these oomms made.

Ban zionist existence!

Ban 'em. If they want to host literal genocide enabling content. Its undeniable at this point and if you are still supporting Israel you can join them in Cocitus.

I'm all for banning the listed communities, although I'd candidate giving their c/buyfromeu a temporary pass given the other societal context surrounding it (finding and promoting alternatives to produces and services from the US, the other big zionist state in the list). How long a pass? Uuuuh dunno, something like three strikes or whatever.

Regarding Note 2: For the time being I am against a full instance ban, but I expect that position to change. I understand that some people want to still see them so they can "refute their bullshit" but let's be honest, when has that ever worked? We all know f.o are going to double down on their fascism because they feel they have the backing mandate (power) of a state, and those here willing to go and try "ackshually"ing them, are free to do so via an account elsewhere.

Defederate from Feddit.org, enough is enough!