/0 Governance

I think this will raise the chances of an echo chamber happening here, and I have not seen the Zionism that you are claiming it is be as widespread as you are claiming to be. I oppose until you can convince me otherwise.

Who needs Zionists messing up the joint? Not me. Defed 100%

"you should be lined up against a wall and shot"

"Kill yourself"

It blows my mind how this type of speech is being used by the op as proof that they're on the right side of things. This is so wack that some part of me wants to believe this is some kind of social experiment to find out how far you can push people on social media until they push back against the echo chamber.

But I doubt it is. It seems more likely that this mod is leveraging his position to instrumentalize this community and shape it after his own vision of political activism. All under a laughable guise of democracy. Every single vote on this instance has been presented in a biased and manipulative way that leaves no doubt what the outcome "should" be. How very democratic of you. Slow clap.

Hey, unruffled: your attempts at social engineering and radicalization are ham-fisted and painful to watch.

I initially joined db0 because it seemed like one of the more heterogenous communities on Lemmy. That there was no clear label that comes with the db0 tag like "the tankie" (hexbear) or "the normie" (world). That it had the shortest list of defederations in comparison with the other bigger instances.

Over the past few months this has changed. There has been a shift towards echo chamber, armchair revolution and increasingly more hateful language. Give it three more votes and you'll be voting in favor of roasting babies on a stick. Because free Palestine, or Zionism, or something. SMH.

I don't like being told what to think about a certain topic. Even when that view aligns with my own. And before the mob frothing at the mouth charges at me - yes I'm German and yes, free Palestine and down with Israel (preferably with not a single additional life lost).

For all instance members reading this:

"Don't worry you'll get the wall"

Do you want to be associated with people who unironically spout this type of hatred? I don't. Bye, db0

Defed.

I get why you are doing this, and while I can generally relate, this would shut off a huge portion of the fediverse from me. I am austrian and all german speaking and european communities are there. the loss would be significant. Lemmy already has a problem of a limited selection of topics and this would take one away,

Sure, ban those communities. But, out of curiosity, what does an instance wide community ban achieves that my own block list cannot? I already have a sizeable feddit.org presence on said list, so I doubt I would personally see any difference.

Not a big fan of instance banning though, unless there's serious evidence of wrongdoing on our instance from their users. I'm not a wallflower that needs protecting from opinions, I can make my own mind and choose what to read and what to engage with. See: personal blocklist.

Just yesterday I had an odd interaction with an .ml user who reposted a straight-up nazi tweet, by a nazi profile, even with their own thread title resembling a frequent nazi dogwhistle. Several non-.ml users, apparently mostly from feddit, pointed out the post looks like it was posted by a nazi. .ml users responded in part by attacking their instance allegiance (calling them "whingy fedditers"). Since I posted enough clear evidence of the Twitter profile being a fascist, OP commendably deleted their thread.

What I saw there is feddit users being met with a hate boner from .ml and their correct suspicions of a tweet that looks antisemitic indeed being antisemitic being ignored and made light of.

That's my personal experience with feddit and its zionism, and consequently I've ended up suspicious of some of Lemmy users' standards regarding this whole matter.

The examples of feddit moderation posted here in OP are almost entirely sanctions against grave personal attacks. I am completely unconvinced that this is proof of the moderators' zionist positions. "Fuck you, you piece of trash" and "fuck you and your whole family" is not "a few hard truths". I'm also unsure if I get the context right, is mrdown a Palestinian? Many of those comments break the most elementary civility standards and verge into murderous fantasies.

Calling for the destruction of Israel must obviously mean you want to kill every last man, woman and child, rather than simply wanting to overthrow Netanyahu’s genocidal fascist regime.

Then say it like that? No, destroying a country is not the same as overthrowing its regime, those are different things. I support the latter with regards to Israel, but would hardly dare say the former.

This post was supposed to convince me feddit's behaviour is problematic. I come away with the opposite impression. So, I vote against the bans.

Get rid of them please. Defed completely

No. I have issues with how this is approached and communicated primarily, and if those are addressed maybe there is enough information to support. I'll try to keep it brief:

1. There isn't really any indication about what we hope to achieve with the community bans. What concrete improvements do we hope for and are we taking any steps to see if they are achieved? It reads to me like a LOT of words explaining why they are utter shit (no disagreement), but then doesn't connect any further dots, seems to just imply "so clearly our users should not see those" or something.

2. Frankly it's unclear to me why I see largely Flatworm proposing these lately, and little POV from the wider admin and mod team. It's no shade to you Flat, I like the cut of your jib. But this is an anarchist instance, if we are proposing rules that impact all our users, I need to start seeing a lot more broad weigh-in from the other people doing the work to keep this place running.

Now for both of these there are charitable interpretations for why I'm not seeing what I think I should. But I'm not willing to guess on that and shouldn't have to. This is frankly a totally insufficient basis, as written, for governance action. As written, I say absolutely not.

Leave my feed and default interactions alone please unless we are going to see better and wider justification.

I never see pro-Zio stuff on c/buyfromeu. I don't interact much with feddit anyway, but I'm really not sure about this one.

If the admins of this instance think there are clear zionist apologia, and have proof of said zionist apologia, then I will leave it to them to do what is best. I am anti-zionist, but haven't seen these issues with my own eyes in real time.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, and hopefully, Feddit can fix the issues described here, but like Flatworm, I don't think it will happen. I don't like defederation, but as a real last resort, I trust in the admins here at db0.

Calling for the destruction of Israel

Are our brains getting worse, or why can't we be specific anymore?

Why do we need to use the same language as extremists?

This is the same stupidity level as Trump saying "We will get rid of some politicians, you will see!!!" and later explaining that it means that the people should just not vote for them anymore, because he is great.

I agree the mods are using antisemitism as a bit of a blanket power for abuse, but this whole post just sounds like personal beef.

Their rules look reasonable and most of their mod logs look acceptable. Some of the removed comments are over the top hate.

I never see these posts in my feed but I would disagree with this ban.

NZS FCK OFF

ZIOS FCK OFF

I didn't notice the instances but did run across a number of genocide deniers counter accusing everyone of being bigoted just the other day. Then playing victim when called on it, as usual. On reddit calling them on it means reddit will violate your account on unrelated posts that aren't against the rules in short order, I noticed a pattern. You can't back and forth with the influence agent accounts on reddit.

Anyway the one I talked to yesterday sure looked like an influence agent and there was a group, and a larger bloc of votes with them. I suspect government sponsored fuckery, mechanized troll divisions slumming it down on lemmy here, because somehow our leaders are more concerned with Israel having unqualified support than they are about the countries they supposedly represent. Might have something to do with them and their monied donors fucking children at epstein's place that they have videos of.

That and all of our leaders are nihlistic, they believe in nothing other than self. There is nothing they wouldn't support if it was in their interests to do. They would sell their own village out to a company poisoning their water and air if it served them. And because of all the child fucking support for Israel amongst the elite in the west, those sold out politicians naturally support them.

With how big some of those communities are, blocking them is paramount to defederating from the instance itself in terms of losing access to posts unrelated to Israel or Zionism (a quarter of Lemmy monthly active users are subscribed to !europe@feddit.org).

Zionism should be spoken out against, but the repercussions of further Threadiverse fragmentation should also be considered. Just as troubling are extremist posts on lemmy.ml, Lemmygrad, and Hexbear. However, if their federation is maintained with the benefit of Threadiverse unity gained (with the user retaining the option of implementing their own blocks), then what amounts to partial defederation with another major instance in this case should also be avoided.

our anti-zionism rule follows the same fallacy, as anti-semitism laws in many european did: it is too narrow and too broad at the same time.

it is too broad in a sense that we talked about banning problematic users. now we talk about banning communities, which cover much of a language. dach is a big collection bucket for europeans speaking german. in their sidebar they mention, that they want to keep palestine / israel discussions out of the comm - which is fair play IMO.

it is too narrow in a sense, that it is hyper focussed on one issue. zionists are bad and commit atrocities, which need to be harshly reprehended. but there are many bad things, which do not get caught by this rule. as an example: what happens to the uyghur population in china is simply not ok. still .ml is an instance, which quite openly denies that anything even happens. yet we are not discussing banning accounts and or communities, which do these things.

i would much rather have an anti-discrimination rule, which covers zionism, racism, sexism, discrimination on hair colour, medical things, ... this rule should also define what actions we can and want to take again who and what.

this would cover more problems, while not excluding anyone. hopefully also reduce needed arguments.

Defed them entirely, we don’t need to allow a ZioNazi bar here.