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No, not "off" the internet.
Off the big corporate-driven soulless sites, maybe. Smaller discussion groups/forums, dedicated services, etc. still works. It's less tedious, less eating your brain.
Basically, going back to internet before central planetary services that feed on everyone being miserable.
Kind of reminds me of how Pride just became another advertising platform for businesses.
Money really does ruin everything.
I'm ready to give up on most things.
Already have. Continued existence is mainly just for the benefit of the spouse who actually has things worse than I.
Inertia is really the only thing keeping me alive at this point...
Set up your own website if you haven't already, the indie web/smallnet/etc movement lately has been really cool to see and has made the internet fun again for me. Neocities is a great place to start if you need simple hosting, completely free and without ads
How are people finding these types or sites? I love the idea of it but I don't understand how any of it gets discovered.
this search engine finds smaller unique sites, lots of them happen to be neocities sites. Just refresh the page and see whats out there: https://old-search.marginalia.nu/search?query=browse%3Arandom
Wasn't there just a thing with search engines de-indexing neocities and the like so no one could find them from search engines?
Search engines are the achilles heel of the internet. The enshitification bottleneck. We need ways to access information around these large for profit companies, as they no longer are doing an honest, honorable job, but maximizing profit in a plutocracy governed by dictators and corrupt soon to fall to fascism liberal democracies.
The Internet sucks now. There's just not "things" on it anymore. When I was a teenager, there was always something new and interesting to do online. Modern Internet is social media, streaming, and shopping. It's just not the same.
Yep, it was a trove of discovery, now its all data gleaning and AI marketing slop, and other garbage.
The library of Alexandria, burns again.
I thought about this multiple times, I've went digital minimalist and it partially is better, you just unlock so much space and mind relax once you are a few days without an internet connection. But I think that's not enough. And the internet today is shit, like every communication media, if it isn't permeated by enough novelty it starts being in control of the few and it starts entering game powers and becoming shit. Think of printed press, radio, TV: all great inventions but they all eventually just lost their original empowering and sharing purpose and became redundant stuff, getting worse and worse, more and more controlled, less and less free and reachable.
And this is happening to the internet as well, it's not a novelty, it's just that we've grown up with it, and as the tool is new its way of getting out of reach is new as well, and there aren't worthy alternatives yet, at least not so used that you can even build very effective communities / new medias of communication on. It's not even internet fault, it's human fault. We love power games and control so much that we end up using our tools to destroy ourselves instead of empowering ourselves, that's not a technological problem, that's a cultural one. We are stressed animals, we've been like that for centuries.
I am also very very very, and I mean very tired. Every business wants to enter social medias, and every person who joins social medias ends up becoming the same: they want more, more followers, more attention, more posts. People are starting to lose actual human contact and interactions, even sex is starting to be more about a screen than body on body.
We have AMAZING tools. Internet is amazing, AI is amazing. We could solve so much of the world's problems if we used them the right way, but we didn't. We like becoming stale, we like to avoid novelty, to avoid connection, we are sick and stressed. We simply focus on the wrong things. All the time.
I mean think how software just progresses better if it's open source, think about Linux, it's just an open, novelty seeking OS. Even Linux Torvalds said that every kind of locking development with licenses, every kind, even GNU licenses that made illegal to close source the code, was detrimental to the development, he was an advisor of completely open licenses as MIT. And that's because he loved what he was doing, and loved that the code was completely accessible and most companies originally were selling support, not their code.
Proprietary platforms mask the same ways to profit on you as novelty accessibility. They lock down their code and they make it stale, the problem is not even they wanna profit from it, it's they wanna subtly profit on you without you being completely aware on what they are doing (whether we can still debate if money is a good way to exchange value between people). It's they wanna play tricks on you. It's okay if you sell a platform to someone for a service in exchange, it's not okay to strongly push people on it, locking their machines down, closing down hardware and software on a single platform, influencing the politics, people's view of reality, actively destroying alternatives, for selling your product.
They all knew what they were doing, but they saw the profits and started to ignore everything else.
Power makes people sick, power is our problem, the concept of power is something typical of a carnivorous animal when it predates other animals, or in hierarchical structures all deriving from the stress of the animal about not being able to satisfy its needs. And being so aggressive towards our own species to the point of creating institutions made specifically for that purpose is something that can arise just from a highly stressed species. We ignored the existing networks in nature and ignored that real harmony can be found in relationships that are more similar to symbiosis, not to predation. We are definitely capable of satisfying our basic needs as a collective species thanks to all our technologies, but we did never seek for balance, we seek for power. Instead of accepting death and pain we started to reject them, and in that process we created way worse pain and more death, and we became blind to beauty. Sometimes somehow we seem to realize it and create better situations, but history teaches that we always come back, it's a cycle.
I don't even think this can be solved by human beings unless we somehow change our brains, the alternative is some sort of external entity interacting with us, something that can be incredibly fast and distributed. Otherwise, with the help of our beloved technology, we've happily became so powerful that we can destroy ourselves.
I was told that I was as evil as the BTK killer a couple days ago. That was because I think circumcision is bad and female genital mutilation is worse. A couple weeks prior I was called a few dozen different awful things in a many many page dissertation about how evil I am. That one, because I made a one sentence joke about Hasan then trolled a 5 page response to it. So, idk maybe enough internet.
I viciously “edit” the internet as much as I can. I block toxic social networks and have deleted any accounts I had on them. There’s a Firefox plugin that lets you individually block sites in search results so you reduce scraper garbage SEO sites in your results. PiHole, uBlock, and whatever else that is available to block ads, tracking, etc. “-ai” when searching. Use SearXNG or non-big data search tools when able.
News comes from places like AP or Reuters. Not perfect, but better than half-true at best MSM clickbait.
It sucks. It takes work to enjoy what used to be better a decade ago, but let’s face it it’s been steadily downhill since ‘10 or so. I truly miss the “old” web. Yeah, it had its own problems, but it was far, far better and more egalitarian than this war zone of monetization and manipulation we have today.
Not at all. Look at this beautiful corner we have made here.
I keep a book on my person at all times now. Instead of mindlessly grabbing my phone (internet propaganda portal), I'll grab the book instead. Been doing it about six months now, I like it a lot. I still havnt finished a book, I jump from one to the other very often, but I'm reading much more.
Its okay to sign off. I had a panic attack two weeks ago, and basically had to sign off for a time. I'm still keeping distance from the internet though. Renewing my love of reading has been a serious positive though.
That's great! I've also been reading more than usual, finished 14 books so far this year. I read at the dog park, at the store, when my wife is driving etc, instead of checking my phone. My notifications are turned off except from my family. It's helped my mental health considerably.
I mean I gave up on web 3.0, bloated to hell web pages and telemetry shit. Stick on the small web and fediverse much as you can. Its still fun but it's like music, you have to look hard to find good things now because its not right out there in front of you because there's too much of it.
Instead of giving up, keep learning so you can explain and help the non tech illiterate how to run their own servers and docker containers etc etc for when every application requires a brain chip supplied by musky to log in. A lot of the normies are lost right now at how all this works and no one is explaining it to them. Now, 98% won't listen to you, but you can try
I've given up on the super-corporate side of the Internet.
99% of my Internet use is Mastodon and Lemmy, both of which don't really represent "the Internet". I sail the high seas occasionally to help meet my other needs.
Yes, multiplayer gaming is toxic as hell. If I'm doing that, I have chat turned off, but mostly I've managed to finagle the Internet into my own personal, cozy little Hobbiton derivative, so it doesn't feel quite so toxic to me as it might to the population at large.
I'll tell you right now: many of those old corners of the internet... Are still there. A lot aren't, but a lot still are. Seek them out, it's worth it.
what do you mean? like, not urls to your vorners, but I'd like to hear your version of the old imternet you say is still there? you mean small blogs? custom made homelages?
Yeah. There are forums and webpages and ftp sites and bizzaro corners that make me laugh and realize that the old internet that we all miss... Is the authenticity of the human spirit, and not only is that alive and well with an appetite, but vintage and legacy sites are still around.
If you're missing that era, think back to what you were doing with the internet back then, and try to find places like that now.
One of the reasons now feels so wrong is because of the optics; the few big websites that are everywhere and have us addicted to their platforms and pacing are not authentic, and are focused on growth and now extracting value to please stakeholders, which results in a lot of censorship and normatization and sterilization. But once you search out your places and talk to the people there, I guarantee there's people with the same drives for not only escaping the traps, but also those common interests. Which is why I can only say that it's really worth it to search out the places you need to be.
Think back to how you found the places you used to love and gave you a sense of freedom and authenticity. Who made those places? What else were you doing in your life?
I literally just talked to a stranger on a platform earlier today about this that I ran into. They were still there, still doing the same thing that they were doing in the early 2000s. Obviously, they're 20 years older and live in reality. But, their and my common interest aligned and purpose came from it.
Another reason I think now feels so wrong is because of shame. There's a LOT of shame in current internet culture and real life. People calling things cringe, etc. This results in a huge lack of both originality in expression and thought. Imagine if you walked up to a busker and said something like "bro, you're fucking cringe and chopped". Like what an insanely toxic way to stomp out the fun and color of not only that person, but yourself and anybody witnessing that. Let people be fucking weird and embarrassing and gross and predictable and whatever. We're all human, everybody has their own experiences. Less shame, more weirdness.
Obviously, there are other huge, depressing forces at work. But regardless of those forces at play and if they end up completely ruining everything or not, this is our life, this is your life, this is your only shot at enjoying all the things being alive has to offer...
GO FIND YOUR PEOPLE! THEY ARE OUT THERE!
The Internet is a very, very large and deep and complex place, with all kinds of history and cultures and subcultures and movements and niches, out in the open, hidden, and not so hidden. It's not just for porn. It's not just for consuming. And if you don't like something about it, you can make something new :o
Lemmy is a salvation spot for me, been an internet denizen since before I was a teen, it has been sad to see it slide into popularity contest/mass consumerism garbage. But I enjoy my Minecraft videos I've been watching for over a decade and getting to chat about homelab/Linux stuff as an alternative.
Its not like the real world (in the us at least) is doing any better lmao
I'm not going to completely give up on it, but I'm finding ways to be more selective about how I use it. I'm moving away from it gradually, as going cold turkey has never worked for me in the past. I've started buying physical books when I can, working on hobby stuff more, going outside to exercise, etc.
Corporate social media is outright abusing people's minds for profit and is wholly unethical. It should be burnt to the ground and only mentioned as a cautionary tale. Anything with an algorithm should be treated with the same kind of caution we use for hard drugs. Honestly, I'm not sure any form of social media is good for your mental health anymore, but at least federated socials are organic and free range, so to speak.
Streaming and gaming I'm more conflicted about. I feel it's obvious that the current business models most streaming and gaming companies use have contributed to a decline in quality and artistry in our media. Microtransactions in games should be held in the same low regard as corporate social media. However, I don't think giving people access to a broader selection of content is harmful in general, it's just the constant price hikes, seemingly arbitrary cancellations and removals, and shifting of content from one service to another that ruins it. With product placement becoming an accepted practice, we're seeing more and more movies and TV becoming ad vehicles and propaganda platforms... But we could have a nice thing if creators were respected and consumers treated fairly by the major streaming services. Sadly, that's not likely to happen unless the money dries up.
News... News is awful. Regan dealt broadcast news a fatal wound by repealing the fairness doctrine, but it was Facebook that finally buried it. When more people started to access news content through Facebook and Twitter than from actually watching the channel, news networks adapted by creating content that plays well in the attention economy, which basically means they generate as much rage-bait as possible. If it's not outright propaganda or apology peices then it's just political gossip aimed and pissing one demographic or another off. There's not much point in consuming any news except long format articles from a few select sources any more.
Interacting with people... Back in the heyday of forums you could find a wealth of info and helpful people to answer questions on almost any topic. But most of those forums had a miscellaneous or off topic board where the chronically online could talk about what ever they wanted. Those places were always a minefield of trolling, misinfo, and general assholery. That's basically what smartphones turned the Internet into, one giant off-topic section full of angry, chronically online people. I don't try to find online friends anymore...
For me, I limit devices to specific purposes. My phone does calls, messaging, and the few socials I interact with plus occasional music for workouts. My tablet only plays music, has a limited selection of games, and my e-reader apps (no socials, no streaming, etc.). TV is only for streaming video. My laptop I'll occasionally access Lemmy on, look up hobby stuff, and do online shopping with. Any gaming is on a steam deck these days, and usually single-player offline titles. Setting things up this way helps me avoid doom scrolling, buying shit I don't need, consuming mindless Netflix content, and buying in to AAA game hype. It's not perfect, but somehow it helps a little.
Your mileage may vary.
Thank you for such a thoughtful response. You and I are pretty much on the same page on everything. I’m relieved to see that I’m not the only one who feels this way.
No problem. I get really down about what the internet has become because I remember what it was supposed to be back in the early days. We were gonna communicate without social barriers, end prejudice, save the rainforests and the whales, you know...?
But the very nature of the medium is impermanent. Every protocol and technology that underpins the internet is flexible, changeable. It's changed significantly from the early days, back when people were optimistic and hopeful about what it meant for us, it can change again. But it won't until we disengage from it. As long as we're hooked, we feed the beast.
I think it's good to talk about our dissatisfaction with what online spaces have become, to encourage people to pull back, consider what they're doing, and to look for alternatives. We can't pretend that it isn't a part of our reality, it's out of the bottle, the box is open and so forth, but it doesn't have to touch the whole of our existence, it doesn't have to shape every part of our reality.
I tell people to take a single small step. Leave your phone at home so you're not tempted to cheat, then go to a book store and buy a book, pay cash for it, and don't use a rewards program. Don't ask for suggestions or look up reviews, browse the aisles and pick one based off the blurb on the back cover. Unless the cashier is a friend of yours, no one knows you own that book except you. No one was paying that much attention, I promise.
Owning that book will be something private, something only you really know about, so it can be any book you want. It's a small act, but it's one that's utterly free of judgement, analysis, and intrusion, which makes it something profound in this day and age.
EDIT: Bonus points if it's a local bookshop, but do the best you can.
I always viewed the Internet as a kind of alternate reality growing up. But, then that started to change once "social networks" started taking off and all the normies (as some people refer to it now) started using it. Then it kind of started becoming almost "realer" than IRL, with algos optimized to manipulate people, and sophisticated propaganda campaigns. About 5 years ago, I noticed politicians started using language taken from the "gamergate" discourse. Now, the US admin is transparently trying to control discourse on the largest platforms, and official government institutions are poorly shit-posting.
So, yeah, it's kinda disheartening how one of the greatest communication tools has turned into a tool for control. Though, in hindsight, I guess I should've seen this coming, even from fiction created a century ago. I think I remember some person saying that the Nazi regime wouldn't have been possible without the invention of the radio.
I understand completely but am trying to mold my access to the world in a way that doesn't cause me such depression. I don't use the normal social networks, I've used the piefed filters to block everything about musk, trump, ice, america, politics, etc. and I've never followed any kind of "news".
Before I did that, I was literally becoming chronically suicidal(well, that's not gone but it's better) from the absolute shit-show that the world has become(it's not just the US, other countries are quickly adopting the bipartisan hatred model now that they see it works to divide). It would be different if you saw something regarding a change towards improvement but that's never seen, you just get another endless scroll of shit that is destroying society with no way to change it.
The fediverse is just as bad as any other social network out there. Although the leaning is opposite, it's still full of extremism, hyperbolic hatred, ridicule, mockery, division and sufferporn. Without filters, it would be as unusable to me as, say, facebook or trump's social network.
I'm withdrawing a lot from people online but still spend a lot of time online, it's just not as interactive as it used to be.
If this is not sustainable, I'm sure I'll likely follow your lead and leave it to the rest of the world.
It’s hard to get a recipe off the internet without having to hunt for it after a 14 mile long backstory no one on earth cares about. To me, that sums up the internet. It’s damn near dead.
Don't give up, stick to places that don't suck. Corpotrash is replacable
Nope. Just about all the good things in my life, arrive through the intertubes. My anime, games, hentai, history videos, they are only really practical because of the internet.
The only pleasure I have outside the internet is food. And honestly, eating for pleasure is far more expensive than a good game. For $30, I can have at least a month of amusement. A good meal? Just a day of contentment.
Maybe I would feel differently if I could spend money without feeling anxiety...but meatbag activities like visiting third places, fills me with fiscal dread. I cannot leave my room often, else I risk poverty finally overtaking me.
Nah, it's just getting good. The Epstein/Mossad files are slowly melting the fascist tide by exposing the perverts behind the curtain. The billionaires are losing their control over information to first hand accounts posted live so we can all see the truth before the spin. The Internet is the forefront of understanding what is about to happen.
Don't quit now. If you want to see the truth, the Internet is the last place to host it unfiltered. Quitting is how the billionaires get people to only see the world through captured media.
In my free time on the weekends I disconnect and go outside and do stuff like hiking, climbing, airsofting, archery; then I come back to reality and it sucks
I'd say you're coming back "from" reality. More like back "to" Plato's Cave, which is what I consider screens to be.
The Internet as a whole isn't the problem. Specific sites are. Steer clear from those sites, and you'll be just fine. Take notice of which sites and services result in negative emotions, and find alternatives to those places.
spoiler
All the popular sites will be on that list. Anything made by one of the big companies is permanently contaminated. If it involves Meta, Xitter, Reddit in any way, you're better off without it. Also, many popular news are built on the idea of spreading fear and anxiety. Avoid those sites too.
you inspired me to check out ytmnd. fucking front page has an epstein contest.
i'm not entirely sure if i was on a tour of an active particle accelerator if i wouldn't take a dive just to try to get us all on a different universe. godsdamned weasels
Yup, I've gotten much more into the smolweb, niche websites and the dark web, where some parts still feel like a place I can breathe.
I believe that life on the internet will reside in private, invite only communities. Public spaces will only get worse and worse.
If the fediverse were to collapse, I'd be done. Its the one thing worth being hopeful about right now.
Fuck no I'm not, I'm just continuing to use it in ways I want rather than that make money for billionaires.
Just don't read news. News push negative narrative because it creates strong emotional reactions and people engaged. Problem is even here on Lemmy, people share and discuss these toxic news instead of writing their own view of it that is more modest and objective.
Yeah the internet is cooked.
Im trying to invest more time in off-line things.
My internet experience is heavily filtered. I don’t see ads, I mostly focus on local news and events, and have certain keywords filtered here. It’s been so nice. It’s much less stressful dealing with my local and state community than everything else.
Be mindful that it's a tool, use it to benefit youself
I jave been onlone from the dialup and BBS days of the 1980's when it was the reserve of nerds, it's accelerated the enshitifcation process in the last 20 years and commercialisation via advertising is why, it's the only reason Googke, Facebook etal exist