Ask Lemmy

Every industry is like that, but with programming, you’re usually asking online, and people tend to be much bigger assholes online. Try not to let them bother you. Eventually you’ll be better than them, because those people tend to not be that good at what they do anyway.

The Internet has a tendency to amplify these bad behaviors.

It's been said that the fastest way to get an answer to your programming question is to get someone to give you the wrong answer. Everyone jumps to correct that person much faster than they want to just answer a question.

To some degree, you have to expect people to be assholes, and you have to navigate around that. It does really suck though.

I dont know why some people are assholes. You asked a beginner level question on a forum that allows, I'm assuming, beginners to ask questions. I hope this never happens to you again. Some of us enjoy working with sincere, curious beginners.

There are ways to talk to these condescending sarcastic assholes. But fuck them. I sorry they were hurtful and I hope you find people who want to go with you on your journey with you.

A large majority of programmers seem to think sharing knowledge means they will lose value so they are super stingy with it. "Back in my days" you'd find people literally using their shoulders to block anyone's view of their code

99% of those are terrible programmers that do not really understand what they are doing.

Still?? The elitist culture threw me off programming over twenty years ago. I really thought and hoped it had changed

Some experienced programmers forget how difficult computers and programming can be for beginners. It's obvious for us to look at the error and resolve it, but for most people it's pretty arcane. Relevant XKCD

Unfortunately, I think this is also a right of passage of some sorts. If you want to continue programming you will encounter a problem that you can't ask or find the answer on the internet and you will have to work through it yourself. I've had problems I've been stuck in for weeks or months. At least for me, it's always been such a high when I finally solve these. :)

I'm a programmer, I've used StackOverflow for a while, for questioning and answering.

The thing is, the IT area is full of stupid people, simple as that, there's no fancy answer.

This area attract people who just want money and more money, they don't care about anything.

I've known terrible workmates while working on this area, if you have good moral and ethical values, it'll be tough. If you're an asshole you'll feel at home. Now, I do freelance only, can't handle those people. Barely can survive like that, but I prefer this over a good salary and be rounded by a bunch of assholes.

In short, this is a social faux pas that you didn't know about, because you're new to asking questions online.

And as you can see from the existence of that wikihow page: it's a common problem and you are not the first or the last to run into this. Sorry.

https://www.wikihow.com/Ask-a-Question-on-the-Internet-and-Get-It-Answered

Learn the culture of the forum. Every community on the internet has its own style and set of rules (both written and unwritten). Spend some time reading through other posts before making your own. This will help you learn the etiquette for that specific forum. Knowing how to ask your question in a way that fits in with that culture can really help you get the answers you need.

Make your title a succinct version of your question.

Go into detail in the body of the message. After writing the title, explain the details in the body. List specific problems and what you have tried so far.

Describing what you have tried so far, is extremely important.

Writing it out can make you go through the thinking steps necessary and you will answer your own question in the process of asking it. That's so common it's called "rubber ducking". Everyone does it. But if you don't do the writing, people can be cross because you're asking a question you didn't need to ask.

Keep an open mind. There's a chance that you won't like the answer you receive. There's also a chance that the answer that you don't like is the only available option. Make sure to keep an open mind about your responses, and try to avoid getting defensive.

Don't give up. If you don't receive any responses, or the responses are not satisfactory, take some time to examine your question. Was it specific enough? Did you ask too many questions? Was the answer easily obtained through a web search? Is the question even answerable? Rework your question and ask it again, either in the same place or a new one. Never believe that you are entitled to an answer. Responders volunteer their time to help out other users. No one owes you an answer, so you should avoid acting like they do.

There are different kinds of communities that have different levels of professionalism and question asking culture. You picked one at random at the wrong level.

I promise you not every community online is like that. Try a different one.

And also, you didn't do your research for this question either. Or you could have found the wikihow page. 😜

It's a certain kind of people. In a word, they are focused.

Within the circle of their focus they are gentle, deep, subtle and wise. Without, clumsy, crude and violent.

The realm of good manners is in that outside part.

Some people are like that, dunno why but programming has way more. It's a mindset of "How could you possibly not know [insert technojargon]."

I don't have any answer but I feel your pain. Years ago I wanted to learn C++ for Arduino and asking questions always seemed to have answers that talked down to me and made me feel stupid for asking.

I even tried proving that I made an effort to learn before asking. That didn't work either. People were still rude.

I gave up.

Years later I got into into Linux and started learning POSIX scripting and self-hosting. I again tried asking questions but still received mostly rude answers but this time there were people in the mix of replies that did try to help. It was slightly better.

I tried showing off a script I was proud of but I did something wrong and people rudely let me know about my mistake. They took no effort to educate me on why it was wrong. I asked for a reason to understand what I did wrong but was left with silence.

I didn't give up this time but I stopped asking for help and I'm still afraid to show off my projects.

It's the exact same bullshit I experienced in the trades. I quit my apprenticeship and left the trades because people refused to understand that someone else with less experience won't instinctively know all the basics. Starting something new is overwhelming and it's hard to retain all that information the first time learning it all.

I feel like rudeness towards beginners is one of the biggest hypocrisies when so much of progress is built on sharing knowledge.

One lesson I learned from a this is that I either take the time to answer a question fully or don't. I can at least feel good about the few times I spent answering a question. The people that asked the question were always appreciative of the time and effort I took to help them understand what they wanted to know.

There is a high amount of god complex in many advanced programmers

The comments have people this post is talking about, yet they are too dense to realise it ahaha

It's weird, IRL and in some online venues, it seems like people are usually friendly and ready to helps newbies learn.

But then plenty of other online spaces seem to just invite elitism and negativity. The culture of 'rtm', 'lmgtfy' and 'marked as duplicate' doesn't encourage people to respect others.

StackExchange was the most discouraging place I ever asked a question as a beginner.

The two questions I ever asked were immediately downvoted to 0 before an answer was even given. And then the answer basically called out my errors without explaining how to fix them. The most helpful replies were people just giving me a full set of code that worked, but they never explained how it worked.

So I went back to lurking and hoping someone else has my question.

As you can see, Lemmy has quite a few of these people, too.

Often times people with jobs that don’t involve a lot of human interaction have those jobs for a reason. They maybe don’t enjoy it or aren’t good at it. There’s also the gatekeeping aspect and the bootstraps (no pun intended) way of thinking. I had to do it this way and it was hard for me so you have to do it like that too. Also, lots of people losing jobs, the industry can be more competitive now. Good luck!

Sorry you had this experience. Not all of us are like that though. I just thought of my own experience and I usually try to find an answer with a web search instead of asking in a forum. Most of the time someone else already had the problem and was brave enough to ask. This is especially true for beginner problems. As rough as some of those people can be, there already is a tutorial for almost anything imaginable. And it goes both ways. Don't ask for stuff that can easily be found on the web. (I'm not implying you did, this is just a general tip)

Source?

Because many people not bother to do even the most basic research before asking.

Imagine like the electricians forum is filled with guys who ask where should they shove the light bulb – in the mouth or in the ass, and why it doesn't emit light in neither of those places.

Ah, you ran into neckbeards. This is a typical interaction with them. They are afraid because they are finally in a position of power digitally whereas in real life, nobody cares about them. Honestly, ask LLMs https://chat.mistral.ai/ or something else.

I have Linux but am a casual user and my experience with Linux users has been nothing short of terrible. Before LLMs, I had to either find the answer on some *overflow website, the ubuntu forums, or just give up and move on. Now, LLMs help me out more than humans ever did. LLMs don't tell you you're stupid, they don't ridicule your question, they don't ridicule you. Of course they can be dangerous if they give you bad commands, but so can humans.

If you must talk to humans online to get help, what I've seen work is to tell them they are wrong and that your solution works 100%. Some neckbeard will show up, call you stupid, and give the solution. And if that doesn't work, just ridicule them and say it didn't work, which means your solution is the right one. It'll make them try to prove you wrong even harder 🤷