RoughRomanMemes

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A place to meme about the glorious ROMAN EMPIRE (and Roman Republic, and Roman Kingdom)! Byzantines tolerated! The HRE is not.

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LOTR CROSSOVER (infosec.pub)

submitted 2 months ago by PugJesus@piefed.social to c/roughromanmemes@piefed.social

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[–] AnchoriteMagus@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Most Tolkien scholars estimate the size of Sauron's forces at somewhere around 200,000 orcs, Easterlings, and men of the Horadrim, although it's worth noting that Tolkien didn't provide concrete answers.

The Roman legions at their height (Emperors Trajan and Hadrian) numbered between 400,000 and 450,000 legionaries and auxilia.

Not decisive, but 2:1 are decent odds.

It's worth remembering that Tolkien was specifically writing to reflect the cultural makeup of Anglo-Saxon England, where 10,000 men would be considered a massive army. If he had been writing to reflect the Roman era, he may well have revised the numbers upward.

[–] pimento64@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

Which I believe was also considered:

And when they had reckoned up all their strength and taken thought the journeys they should make and the roads they should choose, Imrahil suddenly laughed aloud. ‘Surely,’ he cried, ‘this is the greatest jest in all the history of Gondor: that we should ride with seven thousands, scarce as many as the vanguard of its army in the days of its power, to assail the mountains and the impenetrable gate of the Black Land![...]’

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

By the books it's murkier (especially considering the aversion to daylight), but by the films I'm actually inclined to give the win to Sauron's forces. Between the advantage in metallurgy, endurance, and beasts of war, the Romans are in a very tight spot. Orcish equipment (exempting the Uruk-hai) resembles the better-armed Migration Period tribes, and even if sometimes needing to be driven by whips, are capable of long-distance cross-country movement. Wargs would probably drive Roman horses crazy with fear, even if Mumakil are just walking scorpio targets, and even a single Fell Beast shadowing each concentration of Roman forces (up to nine) would be incredible for harassing them on the march, slowing them to a crawl to ensure security inside of a perimeter of carroballistae.

[–] AnchoriteMagus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

In the films the orcs are even more seriously outnumbered. The Battle of Pelennor Fields is only 10,000, and their sole infantry strategy seems to be "run straight ahead". They don't even bother to raise their shields when threatened with bowmen, nor do they really do anything with those absurdly long pikes. Two Men, an Elf, and a Dwarf were sufficient fighters to hold off hundreds.