this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2026
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So now we can add “directly capturing a sovereign leader” to the list of crap the US has done. So what do you think will actually be “the straw that broke the camels back” for world leaders to actually do something? Think it’ll be significant or something mundane?

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[–] mycodesucks@lemmy.world 148 points 1 week ago (20 children)

I hate to say it, but there's no fast answer to that question.

The best answer seems to be what most smart countries are doing right now... slowly unwinding their dependency on the US and finding alternative suppliers for everything critical they need so they can get the leverage they need to criticize and resist. This has the added benefit of isolating the US economically, reducing its currency's ability to influence things.

Over time the US will grow less and less able to throw its weight around, and eventually a tipping point will be reached where picking an ideological fight with the US won't have a major impact. That's when the US will be stopped.

[–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 36 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Logically that makes sense for an elongated timeline, but that also assumes the US doesn’t ramp up their actions, which sadly seems to be the case. So the question is “what then?”

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 67 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

Nations can't ignore the fact that the US has one of the most active militaries in the world. Our Navy is more of less second to none and we have nukes. In the hands of a normal president, we might be fine but you sure as heck know that Trump and his Project 2025 people are just itching to launch one.

This is a situation where there are no good options. The best you can do is continue political pressure, get other nations to rally behind you in the hopes of creating a strong economic resistance.

But the real answer is that we, the US citizens, need to fucking take this country back. I hate to say it but protests simply aren't enough anymore.

[–] Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Protests would be a good start

[–] PlaidBaron@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Protests only work if the government feels beholden to its people. It doesnt. Protests arent enough.

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[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 106 points 1 week ago (8 children)
[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 91 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Or just a US revolution could work. We don't have to kill everyone.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 53 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That would be a good solution but world war 3 looks more probable

[–] Good4Nuthin@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago (5 children)

you misspelled profitable.

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[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 19 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Half of America actively support this shit. They are a LONG way from doing anything about this themselves.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

Not even 1/4th, and that's counting the stupid, ignorant and disconnected. 77M of 342M voted for him.

And even among MAGA, money says I could hammer on my fascist neighbor's door and ask him why the fuck Trump kidnapped the President of Venezuela and he wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 78 points 1 week ago (4 children)

It might have already happened...

Capturing a foreign leader you're not at war with like this is a huge fucking deal, but it hasn't even been 24 hrs yet, we can't act like there won't be a response.

Not anything overt, but our election system is sloppy as fuck.

Why wouldn't foreign governments start using all the loopholes to pay (relatively) nothing to limit his powers in midterms and get rid of him in the presidential? A couple million thru a PAC isn't even really breaking any laws, and compared to the cost of the chaos from trump, it's a no brainer decision.

It's why turnout for primaries is so important. We have to ensure that the people who make it to the general are going to be good in office.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 56 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

Friendly nations do not meddle in each others elections. Russia did to USA because they are NOT a friendly nation, and to sow discord. Israel does it to USA also because they are not a friendly nation, they are focused 100% on their own agenda, and that includes ensuring USA supports it.
Trump/MAGA has already intervened in elections in for instance EU, and that's because USA is no longer a friendly nation to EU.
But I seriously doubt most of USA's traditional allies will meddle in USA's election, because it's just not something you do as a civilized country, because it violates that country's sovereignty.

[–] ODGreen@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 week ago (3 children)

If you play by the rules while your enemy doesn't, you'll be destroyed. Machiavelli said as much. So USA's traditional allies have to start playing dirty to survive.

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[–] heyWhatsay@slrpnk.net 55 points 1 week ago

If other counties boycotted instead of caving into demands, that would have an influence.

[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 41 points 1 week ago (4 children)

This isn't the first time the US has done

“directly capturing a sovereign leader”

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago (13 children)

No, this is different and completely unprecedented.

We went into a foreign country, abducted their leader, and brought him back to America to be tried under our justice system for laws he was never subject to for crimes he almost had nothing to do with.

I'd love to see a source for America abducting the leader of a country we're not at war with, and bringing them to America for trial.

[–] myrmidex@belgae.social 17 points 1 week ago (3 children)
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

While the above poster is missing the particulars, this still is unprecedented - panama and the US were at war, and Noriega surrendered to US forces before being taken to the US. As far as I'm aware, brazen kidnapping like just happened with Maduro really is a new low for the US.

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[–] BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world 37 points 1 week ago (21 children)

World leaders should:

  • Sell all US treasuries and buy gold instead
  • Stop using the Dollar to trade with countries not involving America, use Euro, Yuan or gold instead
  • Kick America from the SWIFT system or use an alternative system like China's CIPS
  • Stop using US tech like Google, Mera reddit, X etc
  • Stop buying weapons from America
  • Sanction America, just like they sanctioned Russia.

China and Russia are already doing most of these. So they're not afraid to raise their voice against America.

Japan and UK (both struggling economies) hold the highest amount of US debt. Third is China which is steadily selling.

[–] WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Giving all power to China, would corrupt it almost instantly, and turn it into USA V2. I don't recommend leaving all power in one country, if you want prosperity.

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[–] seshcobar@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I think it has to be a major financial crash and/or a big war

[–] TehBamski@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm genuinely curious what would happen if the US lost nearly all of their foreign investors and all/nearly all of their major trading partners. (I understand that this is highly unlikely, but so was the thought that another world war would happen and happen in less than 50 years. I'm also tired of holding my breath on these things...)

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[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 35 points 1 week ago (4 children)

For starters, not relying on US payment processors.

[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 week ago

This is realistically the best thing we can do as outsiders. Find other ways and don’t input foreign money into the war coffers.

I’m quite proud of the Canadian dip in tourism and how nearly all of the produce that came from the US at my grocery store now comes from Mexico and Peru.

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[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago (6 children)

complete worldwide boycott of american products. America is run by oligarchs who only care about money. They'd fold overnight.

[–] discocactus@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Not a boycott of products, a divestment from the dollar and the US stock market. Sell all treasury bonds. It's possible.

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[–] KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 1 week ago (6 children)

USAmericans have shown a complete inability to rise up against their government. This is not surprising given our crushing economic system, the fragility of our lives, and cultural landscape of the USA. At this point I believe Resistance has to come from outside the USA. This is unlikely due to the USA's extensive nuclear arsenal.

I foresee the USA going the way of China and Russia, steadily oppressing its people, enriching its oligarchs, and occasionally creating problems for the world. Greenland may very well be the USA's version of China constantly threatening to seize Taiwan.

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[–] laranis@lemmy.zip 31 points 1 week ago

Time. A regime as dysfunctional as this can't go on indefinitely... Like, it is physically impossible for it to think far enough ahead for it to be resilient enough to last. Unfortunately, a lot of good people will suffer before then.

[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago (2 children)

My best guess is mass riots/civil war. The main reasons why it's not happening yet are because Trump still has a good number of supporters and because Americans are - rightfully - afraid of their police (or soldiers) killing them.

Trump is steadily losing his supporters every week, and the number of people at risk of dying due to lack of food or healthcare is increasing. If your life is at serious risk anyway, might as well get a shot at a revolution. And the more people willing to do it with you, the better the chances.

However, I'm not sure how realistic this scenario is. I'm concerned that a change of government for a slightly better one may be enough for most Americans to calm down. After all, they're very much used to being abused by their elites, whether they realize it or not.

[–] Limerance@piefed.social 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

A civil war, mass riots, general strike, etc. only happens when people are really suffering. For the most part Americans are still doing pretty okay.

American society is also atomized. Mass political movements are rare and often fizzle out like occupy wallstreet or BLM. There’s widespread dissatisfaction with politics in general. So far nobody has found a way or even wanted to tap that besides MAGA

You’re overlooking that MAGA is an actually revolutionary movement in many ways. MAGA has already managed to storm a government building. The revolution is already happening with Trump at the helm. It’s not going the way you want.

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[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 week ago (3 children)

At this point, every single country should be embargoing the US. It's well past that point that we cut them off from the world stage entirely economically.

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[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Realistically, global trade drying up. Canada, Mexico, the EU, and others just refusing to do business with the US. Or possibly, making deals on a state-by-state basis, such as exchanging with California and New York, while ignoring Texas. By doing something like that, foreign nations can help prop up anti-conservative states, while bleeding conservatives lily white.

Mutual military agreements, such as retooling NATO to exclude the US and incorporating Canada, Mexico, and Taiwan might happen as well. The US has ceded their mutual exchange with Taiwan, other powers like India would like to have those chips. Maybe the EU outright allying with Ukraine, to remove Russia from play and to secure Ukraine's grain, oil, and expertise on warfare.

...In short, it would be a couple decades of work to stop the Turdpublican agenda through diplomatic pressure. Probably around a decade if WW3 or a 2nd American Civil War happens.

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[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 23 points 1 week ago (17 children)

Literally NOTHING.

The us has the largest military by far even when combining the contenders militaries. Add to that most world "leaders" are feckless cowards just looking for their next payout. There will be no stopping the US. :(

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The US may think they are invulnerable, but they are far from it, the world can crash the US economy in a couple of hours.
Problem is it would hurt the rest of the world too, although not as bad as it would be for USA.
But there needs to be very strong arguments for doing it. Still there has already been hints of the "nuclear" option by EU against USA if USA continues to behave as poorly as they have this past year. The nuclear option being a 10 point EU plan to retaliate economically against USA. Needless to say that before Trumps 2nd term, such a plan didn't even exist! But with Trumps 2nd term EU has moved surprisingly quickly, as have many European countries individually.
Also China has its own nuclear option in just selling off US treasury bonds. That would make it very hard for USA to finance the federal deficits, and could collapse the American federal government.
But apart from that China could sanction USA on for instance rare earth minerals, that would make it impossible for USA to compete in several high tech products. The threat of this made Trump pull back on trade hostilities against China very quickly.

The US economy depends on the rest of the world to be the size it is. And without the economy to finance the military, USA will not be able to maintain a military the size they currently have.

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[–] Aeao@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Our branches of military are individually bigger than other entire militaries.

We hold the slots one and two for air force. Our air force being 1 and our navy being the second largest air force in the world.

I’m not saying that’s a good thing but it’s like when the huge guy in the bar cat calls your girl. And the big guy is dumb and crazy like trump.

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[–] Almacca@aussie.zone 22 points 1 week ago (7 children)

The world should at the very least be imposing economic sanctions on the US.

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[–] BranBucket@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Well, if you take good old-fashioned violence out of the picture, money. Or specifically a lack of it.

Sanctions, selling off US debt, more retaliatory tariffs, blacklisting US investors and companies, anything that pulls cash out of the US economy and puts it somewhere else. Turn off the money tap, make the mega-donors hurt bad enough and the dystopia machine will eventually grind to a halt. Don't think for a moment that the current squad of high-functioning sociopaths that are enabling this are principled enough to stay the course after a few of their mega-yachts are repossessed. They'll flip sides again and again just to try and keep that horde they've built up. Someone just has to prove to them that the threat is serious, because right now, they think everyone else is helpless against them.

Additionally, the majority of Trump voters cited the economy as a primary reason for voting for him. A good portion of them were probably lying to cover for being racist and just wanted to see POC and the LGBTQ+ community suffer, but if you crash the US economy hard enough, you can still hijack a big chunk of Trump's public support. It's the same as with mega-yachts, but here we're talking pickup trucks, ATVs, and rent-to-own furniture.

Few problems with this. 1. It's slow. 2. It'll hurt everyone else economically because US businesses have hooks set real deep in a lot of places. 3. Other nations have a wealthy elite with similar sway who want Trump in power for various reasons and might not play along. & 4. Whoever replaces the US might turn out to be just as big as bully in a few years if we're not careful.

Still, it needs to be done.

EDIT: It’s like the old saying goes, everything is about money, except money, which is about power.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 21 points 1 week ago

Follow the money.

See all those billionaire tech cunts propping him up? Sanction them. Ban their software. Block their psy-op social media websites.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago (5 children)

WW3 fought in mainland USA…

The usa has only ever benefitted from war… once they taste it at home and have cities to rebuild, they may drop the deadly combination of chicken hawk and apathy that seems to be their take on war

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[–] DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Someone who's around 40 should take for the team and run for President in the 2028 election and campaign the way Zohran Mamdani did when he ran for mayor - run on a left-populist class conscious platform. Seriously!

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[–] harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The US has directly captured or supported the overthrow of multiple heads of state. Nobody has ever done anything and they won't now.

Too many Americans are actually supportive of this so there won't be any major domestic repercussions. Maybe some hearings in Congress.

America is not going to fix itself. The corruption is built in. For the last 50 years (roughly), the system has been changed to make the people dumb and complacent; to make the President a puppet king who answers to the wealthy.

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[–] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Russia invaded Ukraine and was immediately under many sanctions. I don't get why the world doesn't treat the US the same way. Aside from greed.

[–] bunchberry@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Obvious answer is that the USA is the world's largest economy while Russia is not, so if USA says "if you trade with Russia then you can't trade with me" then most countries will happily accept ceasing trade with Russia to remain in the US market but if Russia says the same about the USA then people would just laugh and go trade with the USA.

The only country that might have some leverage in sanctioning the US is China but China has historically had a "no allies" policy. Chinese leadership hate the idea of that because then they would feel obligated to defend them and defending another country is viewed very poorly in Chinese politics. They thus only ever form trade relations and never alliances, meaning if your country is attacked they have no obligation to you. Chinese politicians may verbally condemn the attack but they won't do anything like sanctions or even provide their own military support in return.

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[–] olbaidiablo@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 week ago

Invading or pissing off Japan, China or Canada. All of whom own a sizable amount of the US national debt. Any one of whom can dump said debt and cause a default on the US debt causing hyperinflation. With hyperinflation, they can't pay for their military and thus are dead in the water.

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Regimes like this only respond to incredible violence. They believe rules and laws and norms that don’t serve them don’t apply to them. All the systems designed to resist this bullshit are ignored completely because they just opt out of society’s rules while rewriting them on the fly to serve exclusively them.

This ends a couple of different ways. One is they encounter a bigger bully. They are all loyalists that cannot strategize, cooperate, and execute a plan. It’s yes men all the way down. So if someone powerful enough takes a swing, they don’t have the ability to respond. In this case, Canada invading the US with resources supplied by other nations concerned they are next makes the most sense. This administration wouldn’t be able to respond with anything other than tantrums online and on TV.

The other way this ends is letting them do whatever they want. They need an enemy to survive. Eventually they run out of enemies and have to invent new ones. We are already at that point. They divide the population up into good guys and bad guys and eliminate the bad guys, then they do it again, getting smaller and smaller each time until there’s no longer enough people left to sustain them. This is not the way we want as most of the US would have to die off for it to work but it is sort of the default mode of extinction for fascism.

The only method that works with fascists and results in the fewest casualties is incredible overwhelming violence. It’s been done before and worked because it was the best option, even if it’s still a terrible one.

But here’s where the propaganda machine protects the fascists. People are already ready for the incredible violence. The country is on a cliff edge right now. But we are so divided and dependent on TV and social media that we are told to attack eachother instead of the fascists. Most of us don’t want to do that.

So we wait for extinction.

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[–] Wigglesworth@retrolemmy.com 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Mother Nature: cracks knuckles "lemme in, coach"

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