"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in unrelated arguments.
Brigading — If you're here because this community was linked in another thread, please refrain from voting, commenting or manipulating the post in any way, this includes alt accounts. All votes are public, and if you are found to be brigading, you will be permanently banned.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
Especially amusing is the accusation towards the "mod team" when the mod team consists of...
One user.
Or that the feed is 'heavily curated'. BEHOLD, HEAVY CURATION!
I would assume that the warning against anti-authoritarianism is in good faith, though. ZombiFrancis always makes sure to cheerlead for anti-anti-authoritarianism, whatever that might be.
Or that the feed is 'heavily curated'.
The projection is strong with them
I've been called all kinds of things for elaborating why I think we should engage in electoralism as lefties. Even if someone was baiting them it does not take much for them to bite. If I was more into being cynical I would say they are the ideal representation of the left by J Edgar Hoover or something. The lack or wanting to organize seems like something he would want to inspire on to them.
As a sidenote, why DO you think we should engage in electoralism? Especially if it's going to be under the same pro-genocide capitalist parties that have done everything in their power to shirk everyone to the left of them.
If you're advocating for a new party that engages in electoralism, then that's a separate matter
If you’re advocating for a new party that engages in electoralism
Overall yes, but practical steps in the mean time might mean tactically voting in the current tents to minimize harm and further our goals where we can.
Still to more broadly answer the question; because there is power in voting. It is a manifest of power and influence of the movement. Take Uganda right now as a bit of an example. They currently have a dictatorship and are doing some elections. I think its more or less clear that the needed results are already ready, but that is not the point of bringing them up. There are groups that want reforms and voicing their support does bring bodily harm; police and soldiers have already been doing intimidation rounds as expected. If those groups can get their followers to vote it still shows the dictator the limits of their power, but more importantly it shows credibility of those movements.
We in the west don't really face harm by participating in elections, voting or spoiling your ballot. We can say our ideas are actually popular and we are many. That might be true and it is inconsequential if we cannot actually organize. Voting is just one way we do organize and build credible threats when we say we will do something more disruptive like a strike or protest. Winning elections also mean that we are having the mind shift needed for our polices.
I agree with your sentiments that for countries with harsh political conditions such as Uganda, voting is all you can really do, but when it comes to the West we'd expect a lot more. I think electoralism creates a trap where people become comfortable with "least harmful option" and not taking initiative to build something more tangible. That's why I'm often skeptical of electoralism.
Voting is just one way we do organize
I don't see how that can be done (in the particular case of America) under the current democratic party—or any future iterations of it really. If we want something more than capitalism then it is imperative that a different party be formed for organising needs.
I posted about this sometime ago in another thread. Essentially the DNC doesn't have the interests of the working class in mind and suggest that a valuable path forward can be sought through the Green party.
but when it comes to the West we’d expect a lot more
I agree. Perhaps I didn't write it out explicitly before, but I don't mean we stop at electoralism; just that it is part of the means to an end.
If we want something more than capitalism then it is imperative that a different party be formed for organising needs.
And that should be the goal, but not every place is going to have the numbers to sustain a party. I can see maybe Mamdani splitting one off in NYC. I don't see a similar type person doing so in Springfield, MO happening at the same time, but there will still be people there that would support the party.
Besides building our credibility with opposition for concession we will need it also builds credibility with followers. If you can't get people to show up and scribble on a paper why would they show up to a protest or not show up to work where the consequences are real and personal? Electoralism is one way we engage with the broader public.
Like I empathize with the
I think electoralism creates a trap where people become comfortable with “least harmful option” and not taking initiative to build something more tangible
But I think this view is setting up to fail because it ask for the movement to just come built rather than developed. Elections don't start with voting for your guy they end with that. There is a lot of leg work that happens before hand. In many ways this is like a marathon; you can't just show up and expect to go far.
Not working on this because you won't win is a self fulfilling prophesy as well.
Even if you reeeally dont want to vote for anyone at least spoil your ballot and be counted as a protest vote; because again it shows willingness and credibility for escalation. Tho I should point out that there are very important local and state elections as well.
That's why i said organising should be carried out through the Green party. Were you around when Bernie Sanders got absolutely robbed of the primaries by the DNC? That should've been THE moment everyone left the democratic party in droves. Even Bernie didn't do a good job of handling that situation. If he was serious about change, he would've taken the Green party's ballot rather than kowtowing to capital.
That Bernie moment is a twice in a century occurrence that he squandered. Coming off of the hype of "Occupy Wall street", it was the Golden opportunity for change. You ask many millennial conservatives today and they'll tell you that they supported Bernie but fell out of love with the DNC after they shirked him.
Look how long it took even for many of the current establishment Dems to endorse Mamdani, even though he would have the most tame manifesto anywhere East of the Americas. I'm aware it's going to be a slow and laborious process, but doing that through the democratic establishment is just going to be 2 steps forward and 4 steps back.
I think we should have our own party, doing anything with team blue is just for places we don't have our infra set up yet
MOG is run by fascists and zionists, didn't you know? See replies in this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/23289942
unironically posting a tankie instance is certainly something
When did db0 become tankie apologists?
Around the GenAI drama, when users were calling out dbzer0 for his techbro beliefs and how they're not compatible with anarchism. In turn he banned many of these protesting users and embraced tankies who were now encouraging of his views.
It actually is.
mm no. i don't care about israel, it's a shit stain. don't care about palestine, it's also a shit stain.
i only care about hatred and bigotry, which includes antisemitism. talk as much shit about israel as you want, i don't care, but don't use antisemitic slogans. it's simple stuff
And why are anti-authoritarians accidentally attracting the company of supposed anti-lefists? Imagine accidentally admitting in the subtext of your post that your understanding of leftism is that it's inherently authoritarian.
Honestly, the one unifying factor across all of the .ml defense squad is that they seem to have no idea what the words they're using actually mean. They love making posts that sound fancy, but are truthfully vapid, and often meaningless. Or, in cases like this, completely miss the denoted meanings of their arguments.
Imagine accidentally admitting in the subtext of your post that your understanding of leftism is that it's inherently authoritarian.
You mean that shaping society to fit some narrow, preconceived notion of utopia by any means necessary somehow involves coercion by force? What a shocking surprise! /s
There's a very good reason why Horseshoe Theory is verboten in those circles.
This community is on my Local feed so every so often for the past few years when I see a thread that's really overreaching to demonize a someone for acknowledging historical events, I have pointed that out.
Thusly, every so often OP tries to start a personal fight with me, usually resulting in deleting my posts or banning me anywhere they can. Goat has reversed it a few times, unprompted, too.
Like I don't really care for .ml moderation and think its counterproductive. But I just think the beefs are more interpersonal than anything. This is more or less proof.
So for context, I have expressed distain for the Roman Empire, so I am a literal demon to OP. I recognized Batista was a brutal dictator, once too. Cited a primary source, even.
Check my post history and my modlog history. I haven't ever account hopped, either.
I'm confused. Were you saying this community uses sock puppets and creates fake posts?
And now playing dumb, like he always does.
quiet you
Like I don’t really care for .ml moderation and think its counterproductive. But I just think the beefs are more interpersonal than anything. This is more or less proof.
"This is more or less proof about how .ml moderation Isn't That Bad(tm) because someone called me out for making false claims about this comm"
Fucking lol.
So for context, I have expressed distain for the Roman Empire, so I am a literal demon to OP. I recognized Batista was a brutal dictator, once too. Cited a primary source, even.
lmao
You really think that's why I dislike you? Disliking the Roman Empire (I didn't even remember that about you, funny enough), and calling a brutal dictator who've I've condemned multiple times in the past, quite openly, as a brutal dictator?
I don't what's worse - thinking that's a believable lie, or actually believing it yourself.
It’s like these dipshits have a blinder to telling on themselves. They can do it all day- but they’ll never be able see it.
