this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2025

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368

Quick post about AI-free FireFox Based Browsers (Keep your Addons and avoid the Bloat) (infosec.pub)

submitted 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) by ekZepp@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

63 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Just pick one - All the Fox functionality without bloatware

Librewolf - https://librewolf.net/

Waterfox - https://www.waterfox.com/

Zen Browser - https://zen-browser.app/

More browsers here - https://alternativeto.net/category/browsers/firefox-based/

You can also use this add to disable the ~~shitload~~ ai function in many search engines in one go

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/disable-ai/

GitHub page - https://github.com/jruns/disable-ai

You can find all the links on Mastodon<

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[–] LettyWhiterock@lemmy.world 9 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

As a heads up, Librewolf last I checked had issues with media involving DRM. Ergo, streaming services will throw a fit if you try using them on it. Not an issue if you don't use any of course, and there may be ways around it, but worth knowing that it doesn't work out of the box at least.

[–] pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 hour ago

Yeah, you have to enable a setting. I think it links you to it when you run into it. Much more of a turn off to me is not being able to use my camera in it, so I have to use a different browser for video calls.

[–] enbiousenvy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I was ignoring everything Waterfox back when I realize they were bought by an advertising company, System1, which also owns StartPage.

BUT, I recently read from Wikipedia that Waterfox has gone independent again since 2023.

[–] rustyricotta@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 hours ago

As someone who uses waterfox but hadn't heard any of this news, that was a rollercoaster. But consider me relieved.

[–] mmmac@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 hours ago

Last I used librewolf/waterfox they lagged behind a few days on security updates, so I switched to regular Firefox with arkenfox user.js

[–] Valarie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 hours ago

I use Iceraven for my phone

Here is a github link for the android app https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

[–] hummingbird@lemmy.world 1 points 5 minutes ago

Impressive how management can blindly ignore their own core pricipals.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 3 points 5 hours ago

Hell yeah shoutout to alternativeto.net! Fucking great site.

[–] Aetherion@lemmy.world 17 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Zen ♥️

[–] claim_arguably@lemdro.id 2 points 4 hours ago

Am I the only one that zen is laggy and buggy for?

[–] djvinniev77@lemmy.ca 60 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

Really hate how iOS has zero alternatives. Thanks apple for your stupid WebKit.

[–] zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

Could be worse, seriously. Safari is not a bad browser and WebKit is the only engine since years that can keep up with chromium. I get that it is annoying to have leas freedom on iOS, but I also appreciate the increased security[1] and quality of life that comes with it.

[1] yes, I am aware that open source software tends to be more secure, as it can be reviewed by all. However, Android by default is way less secure than iOS, unless you use GraphiteOS or similar.

[–] mmmac@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 hours ago

To be honest I don't use Firefox on android anyways because it's noticeably slower than chromium. Since I'm on graphene is I just stick to vanadium + DNS level adblocking.

[–] Ledivin@lemmy.world 17 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I also appreciate the increased security

This hasn't been true for a long, long time. Mac was only ever more secure than windows because not enough people used them to make them worthwhile attack vectors. Nowadays, iOS sees just as many vulnerabilities as every other popular OS.

[–] SaraTonin@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

Report after report finds iOS to be more secure than Android. Here’s just one example: https://www.rokform.com/blogs/rokform-blog/which-is-more-secure-iphone-or-android

[–] Kevlar21@piefed.social 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Safari on iOS is especially tolerable since they allowed uBlock Origin Lite onto the App Store recently.

[–] zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago

They whaaat? Finally!!

[–] nil@piefed.ca 3 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

I bought an old Pixel 7a with (new) case for less than $179 USD and put Graphene OS on it. Definitely cheaper than buying youself a new iPhone, and installation is easy af.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

There are some good iOS browsers.

At the moment, I use Orion (from Kagi) and Narrow32. Quiche Browser is good, DuckDuckGo is fine.

Discoverability on iOS is awful though. The store is just packed with SEO spam and corporate slop on top of all the passion projects or "benevolent" ones.

[–] 4am@lemmy.zip 21 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

At the moment, iOS doesn’t not allow any other browser engines. Every browser on iOS is just reskinned Safari.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 6 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

That's kind of a blessing in disguise; otherwise basically all web traffic would be Chrome.

Apparenty this is softening some: https://www.techspot.com/news/108965-japan-gives-apple-december-deadline-drop-ios-browser.html

And Safari is quite performant on iOS.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I wouldn't mind if that continues, just so there's some chunk of traffic that isn't Chrome and that web development doesn't turn into a complete monoculture. A smidge of Firefox and Safari alone isn't enough for that.

(EDIT: My assumption is that if Apple allows Chrome on iOS, you can bet they are going to funnel basically everyone into it).

[–] pirateKaiser@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

That traffic only skews the graph like a false positive. While WebKit itself is oss, apple's tendency to just separate itself from the rest of the world makes it largely irrelevant. There are very few alternative browsers based on webkit for other platforms and the expected benefit of developers having to cater to apple's choices are thus negligible for the rest of us.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

Still. I don't want to be on an internet where Chrome is basically the only develoment target, and for most sites to work properly you have to be on Google's browser. Safari's mere existance forces at least some generalization, but that disappears if Google pushes most of those users to Chrome anyway.

That's the internet where Google has even more total control.

[–] pirateKaiser@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago

I agree, my point is that safari's dominance on iOS is not the light at the end of the tunnel, it does very little to offer alternatives to chromium.

[–] redwattlebird@lemmings.world 0 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Yep. I really really want Waterfox on IOS but I've settled for Qwant. It's not bad.

[–] Scrollone@feddit.it 1 points 1 hour ago

Yeah but the problem with iOS is that all browsers must use the Safari rendering engine under the hood (except in the EU, but not many developers create a browser for just the EU)

[–] hubobes@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 hours ago (11 children)

And at some point someone will tell me what is so horrifying about these new features? Mozilla might be the only company trying to provide privacy first AI features. What exactly is so bad here? You can even disable these features if you do not like them at all.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

Yeah, the AI- free Firefox browser is normal firefox with the AI slider set to "off"

[–] cambodia@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Mozilla is still the only company maintaining an alternative to Chromium (there's also webkit if you count Apple). Without Firefox you can't have Librewolf or other alternatives.

Mozilla is not perfect but people really need to stop treating them in a purely binary fashion (you are either horrible or are perfect).

You can criticize Mozilla for the direction they are taking with Firefox, but also you can argue that being a hardcore privacy-centric browser will kill interest for Firefox even faster.

[–] techt@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago

I'll try to give an out-of-the-loop answer to this, if that helps. Concerning "AI" tools, I think the chunk of people who don't want it included in the browser on any level come in one or both of two forms. One is a moral opposition -- for example, a pro-environmental or pro-artist stance. I don't think those need much explanation, but feel free to say otherwise.

The other is in my opinion is in response to exhaustion. Pro-"AI" features have proven themselves to be untrustworthy at nearly every turn with thoughtless or downright irresponsible implementations. A worthwhile use-case is the exception rather than the norm and It's tiring to have to constantly check if this time I want it on or not. As a result of opt-in-by-default changes to privacy policies or account settings, my trust in any site or app publishing an "AI" implementation has been broken and it's nice to have options I don't have to worry about wherever I can get them. I found it irritatingly tone-deaf that Mozilla wasn't considering a kill-switch with their first swing at this.

If it seems unreasonable or hard-to-understand, I think taking a step back and looking at the broader software industry rather than just Mozilla will help.

[–] finalarbiter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (5 children)

The problem is that they're pushing it without any way for those of us who really don't want that crap to strip it out of the browser. I don't want all this ai garbage, never asked for it, and am harassed at every corner by every fucking company thinking it's somehow going to change the world.

Sure, Mozilla allows you to turn off some of these features, but I've already had it reenabled in updates after previously disabling it. Further, many of the settings are buried in about:config, which is not a user-friendly way to make those changes. At best, these functionalities should be opt-in and presented as addons that can be installed, rather than being a core part of the browser that cannot be removed.

[–] artyom@piefed.social 9 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It is opt in. Or will be. And they're adding an AI switch.

Not disagreeing with you, just adding context.

The bigger problem is that they're wasting their finite resources on this crap instead of adding actually cool features like their forks are doing.

[–] finalarbiter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

They keep saying their ai features will be opt-in, and yet everything they've rolled out so far is opt-out. I struggle to believe future 'features' will be any different. Maybe it's opt-in in the sense that I'm not required to click whichever button activates it, like whatever they added to the context menu, but that's not really what opt-in means and degrades my trust in Mozilla.

I'm also frustrated by their seeming inability to focus on their core browser product and building a popular competitor to chromium browsers instead of going off on side quests.

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[–] slampisko@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

The other day I watched this video and I think it makes a very good case. https://subscribeto.me/w/7qSsYEPM2aC3D6stdZ54nq (the website is the author's peertube instance)

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