Ask Lemmy

I'd tell them to shut the fuck up and not to speak that way about people in my presence.

My parents try to bait me into silly and shitty discussions like this, usually prompted by some conservative bullshit they saw on their preferred news program, and I just very simply say: "We can't discuss this because it is going to make me hate you." That's been enough to put an end to it for me.

I don't think there is much to say to that, other than a genuine "I'm happy for you that you have never had to struggle with depression. I hope you stay healthy, I wouldn't wish this illness on anyone."

My best advice is, don't try to change your mom's mind. Instead, focus on your own beliefs, and find a way to accept that she isn't ready to do the same and may never be.

Some things that might help you:

1) Understand that criticism can be a form of love, especially from our parents

When people who love us criticise us, it's usually because they want us to improve. It's not just to make you feel bad. Instead the feelings of shame are intended to motivate you to do better because they want you to be the best version of yourself.

It's not effective, and it hurts, but it helps me to reframe criticism in that way. Ask yourself, who made the comment, and why do you think they did so? If it's someone you don't respect, ot you think just wanted to be nasty, ignore it. If it's someone that you believe cares about you, ask yourself whether it could be an inefficient expression of caring. If the latter, let go of the hurt as inefficient, and try to consider objectively whether they may have a point, and what (if anything) you can or want to do about it.

2) Create and live a definition of value that you believe to be true.

Sadly, modern society teaches that our worth is based on our productivity and our school / work success. It sounds as if your mom may have internalised this belief, and it's possible that a lot of her own self esteem relies on it. That's why it could be very difficult for her to let go of. You can though.

Ask yourself, who are the people in your life that you value, that you care about? Consider them one at a time and ask yourself why they matter to you. You will notice very quickly that your answers have nothing to do with their productivity or their success. It will be their kindness, their sense of humour, their reliability, the way a smile lights up their face, etc.

Then ask yourself, how well do I embody these characteristics that I value in others? Try to be true to your definition of value, and feel empathy for those people who believe the lie that only productivity enriches our society.

**3) Accept that depression creates a burden for the people around you and try to minimise it
**
It's not your fault that you're ill, but that doesn't make it any easier for the people around you. Mental illness is a reason for struggling with certain things, not an excuse to dump the burden on others.

The low energy of depression means you need to prioritise what you do. Some of it should be activities that make you feel better, like going into nature, keeping a gratitude journal, or phoning a friend. Some of it needs to be being a good friend, partner, and child. Figure out what the other person needs and how much you can do.

Why did your mom mention laziness? Was it frustration at something she expected from you that you aren't doing? Can you negotiate and agree lower expectations from her? A discussion to understand her priorities could help diffuse some of her frustration.

Hopefully something in this helped you. Good luck.

"why aren't you a millionaire? Hard work brings wealth. Lazy people like you don't have much value I guess."

Assuming you want to burn that bridge.

Stop talking to your mother. She is a bad person and will have negative effects on your mental health.

Who defines "valueless"? In my opinion, anyone who says something like that has no value and so...

value is subjective. start there. in an hour, you should be able to uncover either a latent Marxist, monarchist, or fascist.

She's been brainwashed into thinking that only people who contribute to capitalism have value.

Your mom is unfortunately mentally ill. Whether from upbringing or from organic damage to the brain... who knows. There's really not much you can do about it - parents especially are highly unlikely to listen to advice or anything from their children. Try to remove yourself from your mother as far as possible. Minimal communication, minimal contact.

There's no rebuttal. Some people are just wrong and honestly better of out of your life.

Also, I can't imagine she's just a great, enriching person except for those two opinions.

Prune her of your life.

That's some Little Red Book shit.

I'm sorry your parents were so hard on you, it wasn't your fault and didn't deserve it.

Well, what is value ? What's her "value" ?

Helping others is of enormous value.

Sorry to break it to you, your mom is an asshole.

You can tell her she's a negative person who devalues other humans to make herself feel important.

You can simply tell her that when she speaks like that you personally think less of her.

So the Nazi stance, basically.

Honestly, I'll take that over people who say depressed/disabled people have rights, but also don't want to actually provide any kind of means for them to exist. Both lack compassion, but one is honest about it.

"OK, Boomer. "

Ask he what she thinks narcissism is.

prove to me that you have value

And then demand that she proves every turtle on the way down. Money is not an indication of value because it has no inherent worth, etc.

Demand that she proves that your value is attributable to her and is not inherent to you. Etc.

My rebuttal would be "people without empathy don't deserve to live either, but I'll spare you this time mother." Yeah, I don't see eye to eye with my mom much.

"Value" is always relative. And it has nothing to do with depression or other mental health issues. As long as someone still has potential to be productive, then there's no exuse to say they don't deserve to live. Actually, if you objectively don't have potential to be productive, then you're such an outlier that you deserve to be cared for by others anyway. Everyone deserves to live.

So how is value relative to time and circumstance?

I have depression and ADHD.
People who see my work-in-progress stuff usually say "wow, you've worked really hard on this stuff for such a long time, this is amazing, I hope you have good luck finishing this stuff and world will see how great it is."
People who look at what I've finished usually say "you're a lazy b and you've contributed basically nothing to the society. What have you done last few years, anyway? Unbelievable."

By the way? This isn't exclusive to people with mental health things. Same thing happens to perfectly nominal people too. It doesn't matter how close you're to finishing some great work, someone's out there about to pull the rug from under you because they think you've not done enough. People get routinely absolutely screwed over by middle managers with completely arbitrary productivity metrics.

"If you aren't as confident that old scrolls and books accurately describe what happens after we die, you might feel a lot more motivated to make sure your one and only experience in this universe is as comfortable and rewarding as possible, particularly living in a time period that we can understand and manage these kinds of concepts and treat conditions that cause constant pain or suffering."

Eureka! That explains the hundreds of thousands of suicides!

"I hung myself to get out of work, to sleep, perchance to dream..."

What's her value?

I hope your parents are divorced and you can stay with your dad. If not, find someone else to stay with. Your mom is about as healthy as HIV.

Nothing, someone with that world view isn't worth talking to. I've argued with enough brick walls in my life to recognize one.

You don't need to waste your time or mental energy rebutting things that are obviously ridiculous.

Man I haven’t seen this many people slam OP’s mom since the Great OP’s Mom Slamming of ‘03.

Value is a superficial, arbitrary concept. Their value view is different from other people's. Zoom out far enough, and you can argue that nothing has value. Look around, and you can attribute value to many things, countless times.

So, value to whom and in whose eyes? They can't find value to and for others.

Depression is not just an excuse for laziness.

This won’t help your mom, she won’t change her mind and will try to drag the argument or will just attack until everything is destroyed. But here’s a clear rebuttal of the idea.

The failure of demanding everyone showing worth is determining what is worth and who gets to define and assign it. Every petty warlord believes they are the one to decide… and oh gee, amazing how they have the most worth.

If you tell your mom you will only accept her argument if she accepts you have more worth than her - and demonstrates it to you every day - it will probably make her go no contact until she needs you again for emotional affirmation.

Depression is real, I don’t have it but it’s real and I have friends that deal with it as part of their lives. It sounds like getting out of your mom’s sewer might help, but you might need medication as well.

Your mom is a bitch.

You’re mom’s an awful eugenics supporting cunt who isn’t worth speaking to and you would be better off cutting all contact than even looking at her.

She is obviously mentally ill. She lacks the ability to empathize with others so she very well may be a psychopath or have a cluster b personality disorder. My advice is that she should see a therapist and if she doesn’t you should minimize contact or cut her off because she’s obviously very toxic

I don't think your mom has value. Guess I get to execute her if I want, and she doesn't get to whine about it.