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this post was submitted on 24 Dec 2025
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You can use element for that, just don't use a matrix.org account.
Why not matrix?
I can't speak for them, but personally I've been moving away from matrix entirely for a few reasons.
Element was always a buggy mess on my phone, and a shitty electron app on my laptop.
It was too difficult for normals and while I disagree, they wouldn't use it. What's a chat app without contacts after all?
While element was bugging and I was awaiting an update, I found out that the Matrix [.] org foundation was started as a project at Amdocs, then when it was defunded the lead of the project created the foundation. Amdocs is fucking sketchy, they're associated with mossad and have infiltrated the US telcom networks. Now look, I'm not saying they backdoored matrix, but they did do the other thing and backdooring a chat app would be right in line with their entire schtick, and I'm just too fucking paranoid for that, straight up. It also leaks metadata like piss to any server that federates with yours so if mossad is working with the matrix org, they get all of it just by your server federating with the largest, "official" server. To some degree, metadata seems inescapable, but almost anyone is better than mossad.
They also have a bit of a CP problem in their public rooms so stay out of those, but don't worry due to that problem they removed searching for public rooms so you have to know the addr to join, so they make it hard to stumble into them, but also now you can't search for public rooms which is a hinderance if you did want to join, say, the rasberry pi room, despite the risk of cp being posted.
BUT they don't require phone numbers!
So for now I'm trying out Delta Chat, seems alright so far. No video calling though.
But yeah maybe that whole Amdocs connection to the "official server" is what they were referencing, but if not I'd like to know their reason!
Interesting information. I didn't know about the potential tie. Honestly, any "intelligence" agency is as bad a tie for a chat app, especially one that claims privacy. I have no one on Delta, but I've had it installed for a while : / maybe one day...
I was able to get two people on Delta so far, it seems easy enough for normal people to use, so there may be hope yet!
I hope so. It took me almost 7 years to go from Hangouts to Signal, and it took Google claiming they'll kill Hangouts for the last 3-5 to make the jump.
Well that was nice of google to help lol. Good luck, I hope you can get them to switch!
I can never say that google never helped me with anything lol!
matrix.org is one instance, the biggest one. Guessing they require a phone number.
Ah ok. I haven't used matrix in a while, but it didn't require a phone then (several years ago), so I thought they were saying not to use matrix in general.
SimpleX chat does video calls.
Thanks, I'm going to check this out. Seems pretty straightforward which is good for the family to use
Just for transparency reasons, you might want to see this: https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/simplex-chat-is-now-a-crypto-project-selling-tokens-and-nfts/32490/9
I prefer Delta Chat, but sadly video calls are experimental :(
And also there is no support for group calls.
Matrix.
If you feel like setting up a stun/turn server it's possible to set up your own using something like xmpp or next cloud talk. Works for individual accounts with friends if not a plug and go app.
I have an ejabberd server setup for my family for this reason. Using the Conversations app off F-Droid and Gajim on desktops
self hosted matrix instance here
Side note but I was literally just thinking the other day that the accelerated rise of corruption and right-wing pivot of the globe also coincides with encrypted / anonymous communications. Mobsters and state actors must be having an absolute field day this past decade.
If the Epstein files have proven anything, it's that these idiots use plain text email.
It looks like Session has video calls in beta.
Note that most services requiring a phone number for registration don't actually require that phone number to be connected to a SIM card in the device you're using. That may be helpful depending on your use case.
Do not use Session. It isnt even vaguely secure. Two part blog post from the researcher that single handedly disproved Session was secure or had any interest in being secure:
https://soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-use-session-signal-fork/
https://soatok.blog/2025/01/20/session-round-2/
EDIT: Formatting
Heres a cool new phone company that require no personal info Phreeli
Phreeli is overpriced and doesn't actually grant much privacy despite their claims. Telecom providers can still have a field day with your location and sms/call data even if Phreeli isn't collecting that themselves, which is also really just a pinky promise at this point. There are also competing services already which don't require PII either but have more reasonable prices.
If you want a phone number just to sign up for signal or something just use jmp.chat smspool or mysudo depending on your needs.
This is good to know, thank you!
Threema
It’s around $5 for the app. No phone number needed. End-to-end encryption for chat and calls (audio/video). Desktop versions are in beta.
iOS and Android
Strongly recommend against Threema. Thier initial "custom protocol" had a bunch of basic mistakes in it, and thier mitigation doesnt completely solve the biggest ones. The original details can be seen here: https://breakingthe3ma.app/ I can't find the original blog post that did a more thorough breakdown.
Ah, found the blog post with a thorough breakdown: https://soatok.blog/2021/11/05/threema-three-strikes-youre-out/
I’d love to see the blog post. Is there a date on that paper? How recent is this?
I’ve read about fixed vulnerabilities, but not outstanding ones.
This looks promising. I Like that it has group video as well. Thanks.
I don't know how private/secure it really is, but Teleguard doesn't require a phone number.
I'd really like to see some research into them, though, to know how good/bad it is.
I don't know where to even start.
Alternative: XMPP has been around for 25+ years, can be self-hosted, there's numerous solutions available.
Jitsi doesn't require it, nor does Kmeet I think.
Edit: I had done a stupid while typing this.
Not ideal, but I think Discord is offering E2EE for voice and video chat now.