this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2025
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Archived version

...

While Brussels champions policy initiatives and American tech giants market their own โ€˜sovereignโ€™ solutions, a handful of public authorities in Austria, Germany, and France, alongside the International Criminal Court in The Hague, are taking concrete steps to regain control over their IT.

These cases provide a potential blueprint for a continent grappling with its technological autonomy, while simultaneously revealing the deep-seated legal and commercial challenges that make true independence so difficult to achieve.

The core of the problem lies in a direct and irreconcilable legal conflict. The US CLOUD Act of 2018 allows American authorities to compel US-based technology companies to provide requested data, regardless of where that data is stored globally. This places European organizations in a precarious position, as it directly clashes with Europe's own stringent privacy regulation, the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

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[โ€“] whaleross@lemmy.world 84 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Sweden is not. Our tax office decided only this year to migrate everything to the Office 365 cloud despite Microsoft admitting that they'd turn over any data to the US government should they be asked to. I think the EU should step in on this.

[โ€“] Humanius@lemmy.world 29 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The Dutch tax agency did the same, mostly because there are supposedly no sufficiently capable European alternatives.
(Worth specifying that it's specifically about the Office 365 suite, and not the software for handling tax returns)

[โ€“] Bunbury@feddit.nl 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And donโ€™t forget that the Dutch digital ID was outsourced to a Dutch company that was now bought by a US company. The Dutch way for the government to digitally identify Dutch citizens is about to be in US hands.

[โ€“] Humanius@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Afaik Solvinity, the company that takes care of he infrastructure behind DigiD and MijnOverheid, is on the verge of being bought by the US company Kyndryl. But it hasn't been sold yet.

Hypothetically the government could still stop it on the grounds of national interest. Though you can see how well that went with Nexperia..
With the government being "demissionair" however, idk if they will.

It would certainly draw the attention of America is we did.

[โ€“] Bunbury@feddit.nl 3 points 3 months ago

Ah, I wasnโ€™t aware that it wasnโ€™t 100% done yet. Shame that I have 0 trust that theyโ€™ll do anything about this.

[โ€“] comrade_twisty@feddit.org 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Can you just stop filing taxes because you donโ€™t wanna violate EU data protection laws? /s

[โ€“] pmk@piefed.ca 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Filing taxes in sweden means going to the tax agencys website, identifying with your phone, and they already have everything pre-calculated so you just sign it digitally, takes 5 minutes. If you ignore it I think it's the same as accepting it after a certain date.

[โ€“] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 months ago

I wish Canada had that system.

[โ€“] lysol@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

To elaborate a bit more: the only reason to not just signing directly is if you want to declare things like "I have commuted this distance this year and want a tax cut on my commute" or other special case things you might apply for. Or if you have a small business or something. So for like 75 %, simply just signing the pre-filled tax is enough.

[โ€“] ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Finland moved election vote count system to Amazon's cloud service. Votes are still given on paper, but the results are counted on AWS' servers, which theoretically gives Amazon the possibility to affect our election results from here on out.

[โ€“] Babalugats@feddit.uk 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

That is fucking insane.

In Ireland in 2002 they tried to bring in electronic voting. It cause uproar, they had already paid for the machines so for almost a decade the machines stayed in storage in 'accomplices' - storage facilities among other friends locations.

The machines cost โ‚ฌ55m (to buy and store)

Storing the machines cost as much as โ‚ฌ700,000 one year

Dropping slightly a few years later

Election Officials to get โ‚ฌ400,000 from state for storing them

The โ‚ฌ51m machines were eventually sold for scrap for โ‚ฌ70,000

Ireland could still be paying some costs until 2029 regardless that the machines have been scrapped

[โ€“] Tryenjer@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

That's crazy, I hope electronic voting is never allowed in Portuguese elections.

[โ€“] randomname@scribe.disroot.org 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't know much about Sweden, but the government released a report including options for digital collaboration platform technologies for the public sector in 2021 (available in English and Swedish, both a s pdf).

At least the Swedish National Board of Housing, Building and Planning has chosen Nextcloud in 2022.

[โ€“] mumblerfish@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No Swedish governement agency can freely choose a technical solution. Almost all such choises fall under a public procurement, which are heavily regulated. They can demand that the service supports certain things to exclude actors, but if too strict I think the procurement can be overturned. In some cases a US actor can just offer a low enough price and the agency more or less have to pick them.

[โ€“] Mad_Punda@feddit.org 3 points 3 months ago

I feel like โ€adhering to GDPR and not sharing personal information of citizens with actors outside the EUโ€ would be a reasonable requirement. But Iโ€™m not lobbied by big tech so what do I know.

[โ€“] Treczoks@lemmy.world 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just like the US cut out of TicToc, we need to cut out of Facebook, X, Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc.

[โ€“] randomname@scribe.disroot.org 23 points 3 months ago

Yes, and we need also cut out of Tiktok :-)

[โ€“] ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I never understood how companies like Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc. can commit crimes such as espionage for the NSA over years, and everyone will still give them their personal property without any concern whatsoever. The problem is public infrastructure uses these products with the pre-bundled viruses, meaning even if you are practicing perfect infosec, it still doesn't matter. Because the U.S. can still get it through just asking Microsoft or Apple to fork it over.

[โ€“] mrdown@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I wish Canada was doing the same

[โ€“] GambaKufu@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

The Five Eyes surveillance sharing system makes it unlikely that the UK, Canada, Australia or New Zealand will have the same national security drive to opt out. They can just ask the US to share info on their own citizens in a way that isn't open to mainland Europe.

[โ€“] faintwhenfree@lemmus.org 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Canada can't afford that right now, not in this economy, not while a president that is so easily purchasable. But I wish the same.

Just dangle a set of keys in front of Trumpie. Works for babies, will work for him.

[โ€“] minorkeys@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

They have to. Trump will use any form of leverage against them.

[โ€“] LaOroBob@suppo.fi 8 points 3 months ago

Itโ€™s about time โ€ฆ

[โ€“] Babalugats@feddit.uk 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Sounds good, but with the big tech lobbying in Europe and many politicians having their ears bent for the right price there will be a pushback that will delay it until it's too late.

Too many saying our privacy is not a priority. Identify those and get rid of them (don't elect them) and block it at every possible point.

[โ€“] Evotech@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

We are so far away from competing with aws, gcp and azure though

Hopefully investments are there