this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2025
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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 42 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Self driving cars have always been a stupid solution to the wrong problem.

We shouldn't be investing billions in them. We should be investing billions in creating livable spaces that don't need cars so much. Then people will be happier and there will be less pollution.

But I guess that's not profitable so I guess we'll just do idiotic garbage that gets people killed.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

We should be investing billions in creating livable spaces that don’t need cars so much. Then people will be happier and there will be less pollution.

when someone figures out how to make the better options more profitable than the bad options we'll finally see progress.

until then we're fucked

[–] MimicJar@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I mean the US is heavily car centric. Self driving cars are an attempt to adapt to what the reality of the world currently is.

We should absolutely be doing things to make cars less of a requirement by improving public transit and creating more livable spaces that don't require cars, that can even be the primary goal, but it won't eliminate cars completely, and if it does it will take A LOT longer than self driving cars.

Self driving cars are a great idea, but they aren't a fix everything solution, they just one part of an overall solution.

Quick edit: Also the cars Musk is developing are not even close to what we need. He's being deliberately obtuse and creating more problems than he's solving.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 7 points 1 day ago (12 children)

Self driving cars are a great idea, but they aren’t a fix everything solution, they just one part of an overall solution.

Why are they a great idea? What are they making better? How is it worth the real and opportunity costs?

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[–] frunch@lemmy.world 79 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I found this part to be even more alarming:

All of the Robotaxi crashes so far have occurred with human safety monitors—who have been trained to take control of the car in the event of a software error—present in the vehicles.

This is significant because, as TechCrunch reported on Monday, Tesla is starting to send out its Robotaxi fleet without safety monitors.

So despite a pitiful record with people trying to correct the cars mistakes, they're now ready to move on to running them without assistance?!? I am furious at the idea that our safety on the roads is this negotiable.

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 47 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It’s insane how shit the US is at managing its cars considering how aggressively they’ve forced them as the only truly viable mode of transport. It sucks horribly to drive in North America but it’s the only option given to people. Like, if you’re gunna do the worst option at least do it right and have some pride in the system.

The US doesn’t give a fuck about its people.

[–] Cybersteel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Feel like some sort of trap. Being able to drive anywhere feels like it gives you so much freedom, the ability to go anywhere but the reality is there so much opportunity cost and financial cost to live in a car dominated society, even all the small things like convenience and safety all adds up.

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[–] teft@piefed.social 16 points 1 day ago

Regulatory capture is a hell of a drug.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The US has absolutely mad road to traffic laws. Zero concept of lane discipline, you driving whatever lane you feel like. Don't understand roundabouts even though it's just a curved road, it's really not that hard. Still don't have standardised pedestrian crossings even when other countries had them back in the 1920s. A red traffic light only means stop sometimes, but sometimes you can go if you're turning right. No one obeys the speed limit, people regularly exceed it, and see no problem with that. And of course no one has separate indicator lights and brake lights because when would you ever slow down and go around a corner, definitely no need to engineer for that eventuality.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A red traffic light only means stop sometimes, but sometimes you can go if you’re turning right.

It always means stop. You can turn right on red (in most places) but only after you stop first and you must yield to crossing traffic. Unfortunately, not everyone knows this - I've met many people who think "right on red" means you can treat it like a green light as long as you're turning right.

What really gets me pissed is the signs that say "right turn on red after complete stop" which implies that isn't the case fucking everywhere, when it is the case.

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[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 day ago

Proof of concept fails in a spectacular fireball?

Fuck it, owners are too invested, ship it anyway.

Feels like I work for the same company.

Why repair the plane on the ground...if it's a real problem, we can fix it mid-flight.

[–] Burninator05@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not trying to defend Tesla on this because fuck Musk and everything he touches but are there stats on how, when, and why the human took over? Did they just not take over? Did they take over to late? Did they take over and make the situation worse?

[–] frunch@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

You raise an excellent point, one which i was hoping to find out more about as well. It turns out Tesla has been working hard to keep pretty much any pertinent information to answer your questions firmly under lock and key.

From this Electrek article https://electrek.co/2025/11/17/tesla-robotaxi-had-3-more-crashes-now-7-total/

Unlike other companies reporting to NHTSA, Tesla abuses the right to redact data reported through the system. The automaker redacts the “narrative” for each reported crash, preventing the public from knowing how the crashes happened and who is responsible.

Based on the limited information in Tesla’s reports, we know that one of the new crashes involved a Robotaxi driving into a car backing up, another involved a cyclist, and the last one involved an unknown animal.

So he's basically fudging the numbers and anytime he's questioned he points at the fudged numbers and says everything's great, he's great, now get out of the way while he deploys a fleet of these un-manned deathtraps to "half the US population" according to a properly ultra-super-inflated kind of claim only a douchebag like Leon can make. No, seriously--he actually claimed that by the end of 2025 he'll have these things serving half the population of the US.

https://electrek.co/2025/07/23/elon-musk-with-straight-face-tesla-robotaxi-will-cover-half-us-population-end-year/

🫠

[–] bold_atlas@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children)

Feeling a bit smug since I was early adopter of calling "self-driving" cars a grift. Remember when it was an undeniable fact that most cars would be driving entirely by themselves by now?

[–] Cybersteel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (3 children)

My campus has a self driving mini bus service though there's a real driver in the driver's seat jic.

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[–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Six months from now. Just as true today as it was ten years ago.

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[–] cheesybuddha@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Some things are just super obvious that even if we can, we should not

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

This is pretty much the only metric that matters. There is absolutely plenty of room to improve on human drivers! One crash per 500k miles sounds extremely low to me. But if the cars are not better than humans, they should not be on the road.

[–] Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You could not pay me to get inside of any Tesla product. Crappy quality, crappy design, crappy materials, crappy everything. Just another PE for guys with itty bitty weenies.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 day ago

I rented one once for an hour, that was all the Tesla experience I needed tbh.

Wasn't a P100D or anything, just a Y Long Range, but I no longer have any curiosity about it. Interior was bland af, ride quality was barely any better than a cheapo Hyundai... The only good things are the giant tablet not being slow as hell, and the powertrain being fun.

You get a lot more with European cars if you're willing to pay Tesla level prices. Or you can get a completely OK car from Korea or Japan and pay less (as long as it isn't a Lexus, those are expensive).

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 51 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wow, good thing the owner didn't fire a load of people in the government department who could prevent this.

https://www.theverge.com/news/646797/nhtsa-staffers-office-vehicle-automation-safety-firing-doge-tesla

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 11 points 1 day ago (4 children)

He fired them because he knew his system sucked, and would never be roadworthy, and that was the department that would stop him. So he fired them, and here we are.

I'm actually looking forward to a lot of good crashes, that they'll explain away as Sleepy Joe's fault, or it's not that bad that a school bus full of children blew up on a fire crash with a Tesla, it happens all the time, or perhaps they'll just deny it, and MAGA will cover it up. Let them kill a whole bunch of American citizens, and then be all dismissive of any criticism.

This is the year to let MAGA fully flower, and do their worst. The Dems should just stay out of the way, and do nothing to stop them from themselves, and work the media to point out every disaster. I can't wait for the Midterms.

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[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 33 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Did Robotaxi just flat out steal the Cyberpunk font in order to try to look cool? It seems like a very Musk thing to do.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

All the billionares watched a few too many 2077 YouTube videos.

Why do you think they're so specifically interested in space datacenters? And AR glasses? And AGI, and corpo states? Just to start.

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[–] LoafedBurrito@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I hate this timeline. We are forced to drive next to these death machines and the corporations that own them take zero accountability and just bribe the president for more welfare and to not ever investigate them.

Our whole country is bought and paid for by evil billionaires who dont care if we live or die.

[–] Cybersteel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

2nd amendment is there for a reason.

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[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago (8 children)

If driverless taxis ever go mainstream (and that's a big if), it will be from companies like Waymo, not Tesla. Tesla shouldn't be seen as a serious company. I mean, they do sell legitimate products, but their $1.6 trillion market cap isn't based on what they sell today, but what their cult member investors think they're going to bring to market in the future. You know, all the stuff that will usher in the post-human, techno utopia. It's all nonsense, and someday it will all come crashing down, though that could take a while. People can stay delusional for a long time.

[–] makeshiftreaper@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Elon's stupid ass dedication to using cameras and image processing for self driving will ultimately be what leaves Tesla in the dust. A combination of LIDAR, cameras, and other detection tools are way safer than just cameras alone. I'm not a huge Mark Rober fan but he did show that you can beat Tesla's self driving with Looney Tunes techniques

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 1 day ago

i was thinking TESLA is really late to the game, when google's waymo already does it for a few years now, its still limited where it drives, but teslas already lost that race.

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[–] sturmblast@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (6 children)

If you like to watch your money burn, invest in Tesla.

[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

and if YOU want to burn, get in a Tesla

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[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 33 points 2 days ago (4 children)

„But that‘s as bad as it will ever be!“ I hear tech bros reciting their mantra but then it gets worse all the time somehow.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 1 day ago

its most likely a regular tesla with all the sensors stripped out, and the software dumbed down.

[–] motruck@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So go find one and keep riding it until you hit the accident payday?

[–] bold_atlas@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Pretty sure they make passengers agree to a waiver. Also nobody should be giving money to Elon Musk.

Just stay away from these things. If you find one parked then flatten the tires.

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