this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2025
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[–] Stern@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Context- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A11-15&version=NIV

[–] yermaw@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I need a few more verses like this in my arsenal. I don't want people citing religious texts at me for how to live my life, Ive read like 5% of the/a christian bible and zero of the others. I don't agree as a concept, might as well be quoting star wars at me, but if they insist on fighting with the book its nice to have ways to win with the book.

[–] cyberwitch@reddthat.com 7 points 2 days ago

Try Psalm 137 on for size. 8 O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, Blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us! 9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rocks!

Hosea 1 is wild: 8 "And when [Gomer the harlot] weaned No Mercy (And I thought Tragedeigh was a bad name for a girl!), she conceived and bore a son. 9 And the Lord said," Call his name Not my People, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.

Also if fundies claim that the husband leads the wife like God leads the church, Hosea 2 gives a good idea of what "Godly husbandmanship" looks like.

And of course, Leviticus is full of all kinds of "fun” things to have as soundbites, like humiliation rituals for menstruation or" suspected" infidelity, when a rapist can marry his victim, and how badly you can beat a slave before you get into trouble for it.

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 108 points 3 days ago (20 children)
[–] Glide@lemmy.ca 95 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Of course it was. Of course Christianity took a line intended to protect children from abuse and "mistranslated" it to be homophobic.

[–] docoptix@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Well it is also very important for Christians that molesting boys is just "oopsies" but not gay.

[–] Asidonhopo@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Considering how in the original Greek text of the New Testament the Apostles were all described as being between 10 and 19 years of age hanging out with 30-something year old Jesus, and how Jesus' crucifixion was a result of him being caught in the middle of the night in the Garden of Gesthemane (Mark 14:51-52) with a naked boy, yeah I'd say they have a complicated relationship with gay molestation of the underage.

Certainly not the mainstream view taught in church but classical philologist Dr. Ammon Hillman has the receipts.

[–] Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

I mean, Jesus has limitless love, right?

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[–] axexrx@lemmy.world 49 points 2 days ago

Iirc, the hebrew word that gets translated to 'lay' is also a pretty suspect translation. Its only other usage in the OT (and our only other known context for it) is to describe a man pursuing his wife's servant, and contextually, is more likely to mean 'molest' or 'rape' than to describe consensual sex.

The 2 words translated to 'man' are also different- the first being 'ish' the second being 'zachar'

While both can generally refer to anyone male, ish can be used in the context of 'anyone', or 'husband/ man of the house', whereas Zachar is often used biblically to refer to young males, and /or subordinates.

So put together, this passage is likely 'nobody should be molesting boys,' or 'a master shouldn't rape his servants or children'

[–] cyberwitch@reddthat.com 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A lot of scholars point out that homosexuality wasn't really a concept in the ancient world. Neither was marriage for love or anything other than a means to perpetuate genes and familial property. But what was very much a concept was machismo. Being a "bottom" (in different terms back then) was considered degrading and "womanly," and that was typically the issue at hand, according to many scholars, such as DanMcClellan, Robert Alter, and Jerome Walsh.

[–] a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Have they not hear about power bottoms?

[–] cyberwitch@reddthat.com 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Like electricity and central heating, they hadn't made that discovery yet

Holy hell, they are just schlepping through life forcing the top to generate all of the power?

Now I'm depressed.

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[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm a practicing Christian and go to church every week. I also think homophobes are shitheads who don't deserve the love and mercy of God.

The biblical scholar Walter Bruggeman wrote a great essay on the interpretation of homophobic biblical verses that is really good (https://outreach.faith/2022/09/walter-brueggemann-how-to-read-the-bible-on-homosexuality/).

But also just plain old have some common sense that the people of the ancient world didn't have the same insight we do into human attraction and sexuality, and we can grow and evolve and know better. Also, even if you don't agree with people being queer, you also have the ability to shut your mouth about it and keep it to yourself, and be the loving Christian you profess to be no matter what your personal beliefs are, and you have no right to tell people who to love, period.

[–] CtrlAltDefeat@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why do you practice a religion that requires any practicioner to interpret these abhorrent texts in their own manner? It just leaves a lot of room to interpret anything the wrong way. And unsurprisingly, some people will interpret this in a homophobic way, and honestly, I can't blame them. The texts themselves are just wrong and shouldn't be preached.

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[–] ryan213@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Does the majority of your congregation share your opinion as well?

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Everyone does, and we have some queer and trans congregants too. Our official position is that we welcome all queer people in every way. Actually a bunch of people at another church left and joined us because that church came out as non-affirming of queer people.

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[–] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 days ago

imagine believing in such a hateful ideology. I'd be ashamed to say i am christian.

meanwhile they ignore that King David was gay in the bible. like super gay with no heterosexual interpretation possible.

[–] HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The Bible is open to interpretation

[–] GladiusB@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I interpret it as a mid fantasy book. The epilogue is fucking boring as hell.

[–] Asidonhopo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The modern translation is a fairytale but if you get into the original Greek bible texts and supporting and opposing texts from Greco-Roman civilization it paints a very interesting picture of the corruption of the ancient world into the situation we call Western Civilization today. Hopeful eras where humanity improved like the Renaissance and the American Revolutionary War were in large part due to study and reemergence of pre-Christian pagan ideas from Greek antiquity.

[–] Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This sounds like interesting material.

Any books out there that compare and contrast? I'm curious, but not enough to possess two different Bibles.

[–] Asidonhopo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Biblehub has a Greek text option and full translation of words if you want to dive in. Most of the ideas I picked up from Dr. Ammon Hillman who has a couple of books out from several years ago, you can find quite a few interviews with him online and he livestreams at least weekly. Quite a fertile field of study, the differences in Bible texts between English/Latin and the original Greek.

[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

And translation issues. Words and meaning can change a lot when something is translated. Leviticus went from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English (and most other modern languages of course).

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I believe that line was originally written as “man shall not lie with boys” and is about pedophilia, not homosexuality.

[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Nah, it was about the sinfulness of sharing Lays brand potato chips

You can share the chips but you can't grow the potatoes.

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[–] SethTaylor@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

In the UK it's "A man who Walkers with another man"

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

Of course Christians are absolutely fine with people being gay.

After all, they're the ones down on their knees hoping for a man to come for the second time.

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Question: does fucking a parallel universe self count as being gay? Does it count as incest? Self-cest?

What about fucking yourself from an hour ago through time travel? Are you double-gay? Does that means you can use a Uno +2 card on the catholic priest?

[–] FatVegan@leminal.space 5 points 2 days ago

Masturbation is incest, i die on that hill

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[–] undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

And God, despite being male presenting, identifies as non-binary. Per them/thier own words, God created at least three genders.

[–] MTZ@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)
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[–] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

It is an interesting story, but I don't think the Gay community is being helped by bibles quotes. Hateful people quote the bible to publicly justify their hate, but its not why they hate. The hate comes from within and will be justified in a million different ways.

If you corrected all the bibles today, automagically, a new prophet will suddenly appear to reveal god's wisdom to kill gays tomorrow and a new religion will be born.

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[–] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I don't think the Bible actually says that, but it would be funny

however the Bible says that being gay is normal and cool.

with a King having a gay lover and writing poetry that says "his love was greater than any woman". and he's still considered one of the greatest kings in the bible.

King David, putting the Bi in Bible

[–] lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The joke is that the bible says they should be stoned as in having stones thrown at them, not the other meaning.

Anyway, the people of biblical times didn't have a concept of homosexuality so it doesn't make sense to say they condemned it. They condemned male same sex activities as much as wearing clothes of different materials and many Christians come to the conclusion that both is fine. But if you have hatred in your heart, you will skip "love your neighbor" and select the few passages that can be interpreted hatefully.

[–] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I get the joke but I'm not sure the Bible actually says those words "a man who lays with a man should be stoned". I know it says men shouldn't lay with men.

Edit: just googled Leviticus 20:13, it says they've committed an abomination and should die. It doesn't say stoned.

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