this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2025
1128 points (99.4% liked)

World News

51233 readers
3159 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has reaffimed his firm refusal to cede any territory, resisting U.S. pressure for a painful compromise with Russia as he continued to rally European support for Ukraine.

“Undoubtedly, Russia insists for us to give up territories. We, clearly, don’t want to give up anything. That’s what we are fighting for,” Zelenskyy said in a WhatsApp chat late Monday in which he answered reporters’ questions.

“Do we consider ceding any territories? According to the law we don’t have such right. According to Ukraine’s law, our constitution, international law, and to be frank, we don’t have a moral right either.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 40 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Europe should stop acting like Trump is a reasonable person. He is not. And he is a Russian asset.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 53 minutes ago) (1 children)

Europe should stop acting like Trump is a reasonable person.

I'm pretty sure they are aware.

I suspect they're hoping there are still some sane heads in Washington.

[–] 7101334@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't know if "sane" is the right way to describe the historical MO of the US Government with or without Trump, but I know what you mean. I think.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

Maybe predictable or somewhat reliable would be better choices of wording?

[–] bigmamoth@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

The ue has no power regarding the usa sadly. Look at how nato was push with the "u need to pay us more" and how the negociation regarding tarrfi went. Europe has no powe in the matter regarding ukraine and arent involve in the peace discussion. Most of european leader will say something along the line ukraine good good russia bad but further than that ? not sure

[–] bigmamoth@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i dont think he have a choice at that point. European leader dont hold any weight in that matter. They love to have their picture with him cause it give them a picture of politician that are in control but they arent. Even with all the money in the world ukraine can't win. They dont have enough men and even if they send women they wont be enough. The ue is actually already paying a big chunk of ukraine spending and ukraine got recently hit by a big financial/corruption scandal. No european that is abble to fight want to fight for ukraine. It s over for them and zelensky at the moment an election is held he's out. Is it fair or just ? no but life is like that. And seeing a lot of people that are convince they can send their support are disconected from the reality. About that, ukraine still recruit military personal, so put your boot where your mouth it. Just have to say u will be consider as a mercenary so geneva convention and lot of shit won't apply to you, anyway won't change much cause it s not like either side respect it.

[–] Restform@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

There are definitely people in Europe willing to fight, but joining the Ukrainian military as a foreign legion fighter or mercenary is not the same as joining the war with your own government, like you say. And saying the EU holds no weight in the matter is crazy when the EU is single handedly supporting Ukraine right now without US support for the last year.

And ceding territory is simply not an option for Zelensky, he would be overthrown the minute he tried. It's a very difficult position for him.

[–] bigmamoth@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh so people are willing to fight if it s only sending ressource ? that doesnt fix their meat issue. They arent enough men in ukraine that can be send to the front. For what is sending ressource i think a lot of european were never ask on that subject and if ask they will preffer those ressource get redirected toward them rather than a country that got so many corruption scandal i can' t count them on my hand. There is definetly a part of the population that said they will support ukraine until the end of time but they arent the majority, nor they will in the extreme case europe send troops be send to the front nor they with limited ressource. Talking for the 7 highest gdp in the wolrd 1/3 of ppl when ask said they skip at least one meal by week for financial reason. Do you belive if a vote was hold on the subject of supporting ukraine the majority will say yes ? Politician love that conflict cause it s ego boosting for them. The population dont care

[–] Restform@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The overwhelming majority of the EU is actually very much in favor of financing & supporting Ukraine, it's not even really a topic here anymore. Basically everyone views the Putin regime as a direct threat to Europe. Sending military personnel is a whole different can of worms that I don't think Europe is ready for (yet), but who knows who things evolve over the next couple years, it's certainly not impossible. Europe's biggest problem is that they were unprepared for war, because they genuinely believed Russia wanted to turn a new page after 1990.

[–] bigmamoth@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago

The overwhelming majority of the EU is actually very much in favor of financing & supporting Ukraine

no

Basically everyone views the Putin regime as a direct threat to Europe

man he can't even conquer a country x30 smaller than his own and you want me to belive is a threat for ue ? nato ? or nuclear weaon, nuclear submarin, aircraft carrier and all of that ? who s your dealer ?

[–] Microtonal_Banana@lemmy.zip 29 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Zelensky should ask Trump how much American land he is willing to give Putin.

[–] LifeLikeLady@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

That's easy. All of it.

[–] SethTaylor@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Well, he's already let ol' man Vlad sniff around Alaska, so...

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think that's the wrong narrative.

I don't think anyone really cares much about that land. It's s mixture of mud, plastic drone remains and unexploded munitions. It's important because the defence line is there. Many people say it's rich in minerals... a lot of land is in a lot of places. Nobody is going to use this land for mining, not at any time soon.

The narrative should be security guarantees.

Because when the news says: Zelensky doesn't want to ceed land, it implies some kind of pride and stubbornness. But in reality Ukraine wants security guarantees and they would be willing to not militarily contest Crimea and even Donbas. There is no point in ceeding anything were there no guarantees. But if you get them, then a lot is on the table.

The point is it the news and everyone goes with security guarantees narrative it is a much stronger narrative: you want to exist, the enemy doesn't want you to exist. Instead of taking about land where it can all sound like it bickering about who gets what. Perception matters. A lot of Europeans don't know any the details of this war and most Americans have no clue. The narrative is important.

I got deleted from another channel "Ukraine" for this view and got called a lot of bad words and I don't know why. It's not an extreme view and I think Ukrainian government sees it like that as well.

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I see it as a world litmus test for law versus force. If you get invaded and you let them take your land, no matter what it's "worth", you have been conquered.

[–] Restform@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's not even that philosophical. It really is just the simple fact that Ukraine has nothing to gain by forfeiting it's most reinforced defensive line. It took Russian 2 years to advance 30 kilometers, and tens of thousands of fatalities, to capture the relatively small town of Pokrovsk. It's incredibly expensive for Russia to make even small advancements, and now they want the most reinforced territory in the country for free?

It's a crazy demand that depends on Ukraine TRUSTING the US to come to its defence after Russia breaks the treaty, after forfeiting their defensive lines.

[–] PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

That is obvious, but it's not the land, is just the defence line. Hypotheticaly if they get NATO membership in exchange for Donbas, I think Ukraine would be all for that.

People aren't giving their lives there for some fields in Donbas, but to protect the rest of their country and nation.

[–] PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

There are people there that just want a normal life. Conquered or not, that doesn't mean anything compared to not being bombed while they are playing with their kids.

[–] emax_gomax@lemmy.world 28 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Isnt this how russia took crimea. What makes anyone believe this'll be the last time.

[–] falseWhite@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

And wasn't Trump bitching about how Obama allowed Russia to take over Crimea? Yet he's doing the same, even worse right now. But of course it's hardly news to any sane person that he is a two faced lying hypocritical bitch.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Don't forget that 20% of Georgias internationally recognized borders are held by Russia as well, taken when Bush was President.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ukraine still officially contests Crimea. It hasn't been surrendered.

But there's also no real expectation Ukraine can retake the territory in their current position. And the longer the war drags on, the more territory they're in a position to lose.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The war is currently seeing a very very slow Russian advance, but Ukraine seems to finally be able to strike the Russian economy. The drone attacks against the Russian oil industry are certainly new and increase the cost of war for Russia. Germany lost WW1 without a hostile soldier on its original territory for example.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 44 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

When a home invader breaks in, just let him keep the living room, as long as he stays out of the kitchen and bedrooms. It's a reasonable compromise.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

This reads better in the original Navajo

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 57 points 2 days ago (6 children)

The biggest loss of the Trump administration will be that the rest of the world realized they could go on without America.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] echodot@feddit.uk 41 points 2 days ago (7 children)

If anyone in the Trump administration had any brains at all, this would have been obvious from the outset.

The only people who can see advantage to Ukraine seeding territory to Russia, is Russia. Everyone else involved can see what a monumental tactical error that would be. Especially since everybody knows the only reason Russia is even at the negotiating table is because they are desperate, given that is the case, there is zero reason to capitulate.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] ProfThadBach@lemmy.world 139 points 3 days ago

As an American I stand with Ukraine.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 75 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (70 children)

Good.

Meanwhile, I'm eagerly waiting for the local Tankie to, once again, explain how so much death is justified by the dire threat Ukraine poses to a 17 million square kilometer country with 5,459 nuclear warheads. And, apparently, to their own people. I'm sure NATO is still making them do it, yep.

load more comments (70 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›