A place to share screenshots of Microblog posts, whether from Mastodon, tumblr, ~~Twitter~~ X, KBin, Threads or elsewhere.
Created as an evolution of White People Twitter and other tweet-capture subreddits.
Rules:
Related communities:
European kids are taught that racism is bad but not how real, systemic, subtle racism actually looks. We are taught that slavery and hitler is bad, so our bar for what is acceptable is very low.
This is also why Europeans will get offended if you point out something subtly racist they did/said. They think you're straight-up comparing them to Hitler and the KKK.
That seems like how it is in the US too.
"Racism is only a thing very bad evil people do. I'm not an very bad evil person. Thus I cannot have done racism."
"what you said was kinda racist"
"How dare you, I'm not a racist!"
The unacknowledged shift from the adjective form "racist" to the noun form "racist" is the best indicator that someone doesn't really get what racism actually is in real life.
As an example of why that's wrong, I can do something stupid without being a stupid.
When I was in grad school I lived in an international student dorm where I was basically the only American. One day we had a party, and after a few drinks the Europeans started into this game they’ve all seemingly done a hundred times before where they started saying the most vile shit I’ve ever heard to each other while laughing. Like “OK, sure everyone in my country is drunk all the time, but it’s better than you guys letting in all those thieving gypsys!”
So they did a full round of about 20 people throwing the worst racism/nationalism I’ve ever come across in real life at each other, including absolutely dunking on the only black guy as if he was a representative for all africans, then like a hive mind they all turned to me and someone went “At least none of us are as racist as these Americans!” followed by uproarious laughter. I ask myself internally all the time if my behavior is problematic, but it seemed like these people never learned that skill but instead were taught “USA=racist, everyone else is good” and never questioned it or themselves.
For years this led me to privately think “Man, Europeans are way worse.” But then, you know, we elected Trump twice and the Klan came back dressed in camo.
Such a weird take, every single other thing isn’t binary, yet suddenly racism is? Self reflection and critical thinking are what’s lacking.
Shouldn’t have to be taught to treat others with respect or how you would treat yourself.
Shouldn’t have to be taught to treat others with respect or how you would treat yourself
No disrespect, but I disagree. Respect is absolutely a learned behavior.
what ever respectful means is a defined by your culture. What is considered respectful is different in the uk versus the us, at least that’s what thought this post was about.
Kids absolutely need to be taught this. Kids don’t magically share, or treat each other with respect. You teach kids how to be respectful everyday.
Self-reflection and critical thinking are almost always defeated by social conformance among healthy well-adjusted humans. For a social animal, it is more important to agree with the group than to be objectively correct.
My European cousins tried to explain to me that it was weird how no Jewish people died in the twin towers on 9/11, like they had all been warned. I had to patiently explain that I had friends who died in 9/11, some were Jewish, and that whatever his source was, it was likely nazi propaganda, and extremely disrespectful to repeat obvious bullshit.
I remember hearing that conspiracy theory, snopes has a detailed page about its origins: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/israelis-absent-911/
TLDR: originally it was not nazi, but Syrian propaganda. Obviously nazis pick up whatever fits their world view.
You just solved a 20 year old mystery that I didn't even realize I was curious about. It was super weird, because these were relatively progressive, educated adults, and the audacity of the bigotry just sort of left me confused. This helps me understand a little bit better.
Before the modern internet it was really hard to fact check something. In 2001 in the eastern bloc it was still rare to have internet at home (in Poland only 10% of the population used the internet in 2001 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IT.NET.USER.ZS?locations=PL), and English language knowledge was very low, the compulsory second language taught in schools was Russian before 1990 (this was the case in Hungary, I guess it was common in other Warsaw-pact countries).
I just looked up the snopes article now, I didn't know the origin story an hour ago, but I suspected it was not true. If someone just heard this gossip around that time they didn't really have an easy way to check it, and in their long term memory it was saved as fact.
Europeans are so racist, one facet of the civil rights movement in the US was black GIs being treated as humans by europeans during the war and then returning to the jim crow US. There is absolutely racism in Europe, as a continent. However, most US commenters here are conflating being less politically correct than the US with the de facto batshit insane institutionalized racism that still prevails stateside. Call me when EU prisons are used as slave camps (populated overwhelmingly by black people) or we have a para-military neo-nazi force arresting people because of the colour of their skin. Meanwhile black people get access to healthcare in the EU and have higher life expectancy at birth within the EU than the progressive polite US of A...
Denmark forcibly sterilizing Greenland Inuit women, the general treatment of the Romani people, Brexiters crying about immigrants, oh hey look things are getting worse for black people, Zwarte Piet, golliwog dolls, the racism adjacent to Islamophobia...
It generally looks different in the US because a) the population is way less homogenous so different ethnic groups can both form distinct cultures and are more likely to interact with other groups and b) the core issues are baked into every facet of our history and fixing all of the lingering effects means actually facing and discussing all of it. This is complicated by a sizeable portion that are perfectly happy with a segregated society. We fought a war with ourselves about it and didn't actually fix anything in that process. (I suspect that a great many Europeans are also happy with a segregated society, and as long as that segregation is along country or even village borders they can pretend it's not the same kind of bigotry)
There is absolutely racism in Europe, as a continent. However, most US commenters here are conflating being less politically correct than the US with the de facto batshit insane institutionalized racism that still prevails stateside. Call me when EU prisons are used as slave camps (populated overwhelmingly by black people) or we have a para-military neo-nazi force arresting people because of the colour of their skin. Meanwhile black people get access to healthcare in the EU and have higher life expectancy at birth within the EU than the progressive polite US of A...
Also, since you mention Scandinavia you forgot the Sámi and the use of eugenics in Sweden well into the 60s...
As an American the most openly racist thing I've experienced in person is someone from Europe talking about the Roma. I think we just talk about racism more.
What German kids in the 19th century got taught:
An 1845 German children's book called "Der Struwwelpeter" has a story about three boys teasing a dark-skinned boy. Saint Nicholas is punishing them.
Struwwelpeter is absolutely horrible, esp. the fact that it was sold as an actual children's book and apparently well enough to be remembered forever.
I just learned that the guy called himself a psychiatrist. In 1844, this was a very different kind of science. He was very pleased with the success of his book - which he wrote for a 3-year old relative - until his death.
That said, I did not know he spoke out against bullying of minorities.
Itt:
Americans are dumb af and know it, but Europeans are dumb af and don't know it.
OH HOW THE TURNS HAVE TABLED
History in school focuses on European history, which doesn't really have much racism in it (it has other not-fun stuff). And until fairly recently, especially for eastern Europe, there weren't that many people of color, so you wouldn't really encounter racism as an issue. I mean, your parents would say some wild stereotype about black people, but no one would bat an eye, so you wouldn't know that it's bad. With internet and general globalization it's changing now, but there's still a long way to go
... So those lessons on the many centuries of European colonization** included zero self reflection on the racism involved?
History lessons are a bunch of names and dates that you have to learn by heart. We went there, we made this place, we came back with this shit, we made a church. Here's a family tree. Even when learning about battles and borders, we don't get to ask "why were they here? Why were we there?" We just know that we were at war because this king and that king disagreed. Sometimes, at best, one of them just wants control of this location or someone's wife banged the wrong duke, but that's almost only for intra European conflicts - and Jerusalem.
Ethnic social issues came very late. Jews and other wandering populations are completely ignored.
History lessons don't have to be that way, that's just the way they've decided to present these topics to remove the horrible shit their countries did during them
European history "doesn't really have much racism in it"? Huh? You sure we're talking about the same european history here? Maybe in some parts of Europe this isn't taught, but I definitely learned in school about colonialism, the transatlantic slave trade, the Nazi's racism against Slavs and Romas etc...
Ignorance and racism are not the same thing. There's overlap, but even if it can be hurtful, ignorance is not malicious.
lol "im from poland and i never heard of racism" suuure i wonder what they call romani people ...
Americans aren't anti-intellectual. We have a VERY high percentage that ARE.
The fascist portion of politics is staunchly anti-intellectual, but most of their supporters wouldn't know what it looks like.
Europeans who are racist (especially from the east, or countries which didn't have colonies) are racist in the sense of staring at black people and trying to touch their hair.
Americans who are racist are racist in the sense they want to disenfranchise black votes, gerrymandered the hell of their districts and maybe enslave them in a federal prison for a minor drug offense. Because lynching is frowned upon these days.
Both exist, but they are not the same.
Europeans will also be like British people treating Polish people like shit, or various flavours of white people from adjacent communities deciding the other white person needs to be struck from the earth.
Europeans can absolutely be violently racist. I mean, who do you think sold all those slaves to the US?
yeah exactly, we don't need someone to have a different skin colour to be racist, that's a simple man's racism. us europeans only do the finest of racisms - normal people with normal white skin (my village) vs the weird people with a similar skin but their accents are kinda weird and scary (all the other villages, and especially that one village over there)
(huge /j in case that wasn't obvious)
You're very blatantly underestimating the extent of European racism just because it shows itself less towards black people specifically.
Being from Europe doesn't mean you can't be stupid. It's just harder because it's encouraged not to.
