I mean ... in a way? When one looks at it from nature's point of view, no organism has some "given right to live", all organisms try to survive. But do we, as a society, really want to live like animals, each for themself, without empathy, without solidarity?
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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I'd argue that our social capabilities are our nature, rather than an exception to nature.
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So nearly got an upvote from me, but then you had to ruin it with a false dichotomy. Better ways
Oh, and also, I just caught before clicking reply, "given the right to live" is a moved goal post.
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I've always believed that everyone should be able to have, for free, a permanent private living space of at least 80sqft, a reasonably comfortable bed, access to a toilet and shower and associated toiletries, clothing suitable for the weather, water and food (even if only some flavorless nutritional paste), and access to medical care both as-needed and on a regular basis. if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent, then so be it, for a society to provide any less is immoral
And think of the world we would create if this were the norm.
The majority of people everywhere are ambitious, industrious and want to be useful. So you'd end up with a world full of people doing creative things ... and entire groups of people doing creative, inventive and useful things together.
They'd figure out things like building space elevators, new industrial technologies, the cure for cancer (which would probably be redundant because everyone would automatically be able to afford to take care of their health), stabilize global warming, create alternate forms and sources of energy and begin the process of exploring space beyond our own system.
Instead, we have a world where a hundred people own all the wealth, a billion people who think they're wealthy but aren't and 7 billion people struggling to get by .... and all of them fighting to become king or queen of the world.
The best argument for UBI isn’t that it’s an inherently decent thing to do, it’s that it would legitimately make the world better for rich people too.
UBI would never work with rich people in the world. The unfettered American form of a capitalist system is incompatible with life because the rich will never stop trying to take ALL the money, better world be damned. The system must be changed first.
While I agree with the mindset, I share the same view, some of your details are kinda...barbaric
permanent private living space of at least 80sqft
That's the size where prison cells float around. Iirc there was a study done that concluded that for an average person to remain mentally healthy they need at least 3-400 sq ft per person. Allowances must be made for families and partners
even if only some flavorless nutritional paste
Shit, that's been widely considered to be cruel and unusual punishment for prisoners. There's a balance between "not even good enough for prisoners" and "Lobsters every night"
if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent
Yeaaa there's plenty of other ways to entice people to work or to aspire. You don't need to make people eat flavorless paste, just luxury material goods alone would be enough. Like a decent smartphone, games, attractions (amusement parks, circuses etc), electronics etc. Plus most people want to work anyways just to have something to do
If we enacted your plan as-is, the suicide rate would skyrocket lol
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“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in 10,000 of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.” — Buckminster Fuller
Life isn't exactly easy for most of nature. Animals starve and are killed continuously. It has been the same for most of human history. We may have overcome challenges regarding having sufficient resources, but we haven't overcome all of the obstacles that our selfish animal nature continues to produce in society.
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A reminder to people that there is no such thing as a lazy person. Only a person who's work is not valued
Edit: erased "under capitalism" at the end. The problem of certain work or skills not being valued is not limited to just capitalism
My roommate hard at work drinking energy drinks and playing HoI4
There is another similar quote that I think fits your roommates situation.
"Somebody has said that dust is matter in the wrong place. The same definition applies to nine-tenths of those called lazy. They are people gone astray in a direction that does not answer to their temperament nor to their capacities. In reading the biography of great men, we are struck with the number of "idlers" among them. They were lazy so long as they had not found the right path; afterwards they became laborious to excess. Darwin, Stephenson, and many others belonged to this category of idlers." - Peter Kropotkin
Undiagnosed ADHD, their brain is meant to be hunting and gathering
Ask me how I know
Since they don't seem interested in the answer, I'll ask.
How do you know?
My ADHD brain is very interested. Is it because of the broken dopamine reward pathways causing us to gravitate towards tasks with more immediate gratification and things like pattern recognition being incredibly well suited to those kind of tasks? I bet it's got something to do with that. Ooh learning is exciting!
My therapist tells me everyone is doing their best, even the housemate that leaves dirty dishes all over the house and never flushes the toilet. I grapple with this on the regular.
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In the USSR work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat".
Article twelve of the 1936 Constitution of the Soviet Union
Do you think this is a gotcha or something? I'm an anarchist, not a marxist.
No? Just saying it's not exclusive to capitalism
Thats fair. I guess its more so just hierarchy in general. When people are in power they get to decide what is an isnt valued.
I went and fixed my original comment
Also I apologize for immediately assuming that you were trying to be rude
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There are a great many things I would like to do, but don't do, simply because it is not economical. Even when I find employment doing something I enjoy, I am forced to do it at an increasingly fast pace, and I know that what I'm making is low quality garbage that will be discarded quickly. How can one be expected to take pride in their work under those circumstances?
Capitalism murders your soul, and blames you for being soulless.
And most of the work that actually contributes something to society has shit wages, while the jobs that don't contribute anything or are detrimental to society have insanely high wages.
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Well, the reality is that it does take work to live, sort of by definition. That is unless you envision life as existing in some sort of techno-uterus, being pumped full of nutrients a la the Matrix. But seriously, a fulfilling life does take work. A social safety net shouldn't mean there is no expectation to work. There should be both.
I agree 100% with you. Everyone wants to be a socialist/communist until they realize that you still have to put in your fair share. There isn't some magical system where everything is suddenly free for everyone. Mooching off others isn't the way ANY economic system works. It's what we have now, and it's failing. Just because it's you instead of some fat cat doesn't change the fact that someone is trying to get something for free. Everyone works so that everyone prospers. What needs to change is who owns the labor. You work for what you have, not what someone else takes from you. Maybe one day we can live in an automated utopia where all our basic needs are provided for us, but we aren't there yet, and anyone who says we are is ignoring the other thread they just spent ten minutes writing a comment in about how the AI bubble is about to burst.
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I remember as a kid being told god hates us and we have to spend our lives earning his love. Like wtf? Im automatically hated by being born? This is the same energy as the posts if not the source of the belief.
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Isaac Asimov said that in the future one third of the population would be scientists working on new discoveries; one third would be engineers mananging all the technology; and one third would be entertainers.
Well, I think we are on track with the entertainers part, at least.
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i fucking volunteer to labor for humanity. Fucking pick me when we get the socialism please.
There are a few folks who don't deserve to be alive... Unfortunately they don't need to "earn a living" as they happened to be born silver spoon in hand...
I remember talking with a fellow Hungarian who happened to be a "moderate" conservative, and he told me there's nothing wrong with Fidesz making our country for cheap labor, because some of those cheap laborers can be promoted to be middle managers in the factories.
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