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If Valve creates an "entry point" for living room PCs, the console-beating Steam Machines will follow, argues Baldur's Gate 3's publishing director (www.rockpapershotgun.com)
submitted 1 month ago by ZippyBot@lemmy.zip to c/gaming@lemmy.zip
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[–] magic_lobster_party@fedia.io 64 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Relevant part of the article.

Larian Studio's Publishing Director Michael Douse took to Twitter to argue Valve aren't looking to make a device that exceeds the power of the consoles, they're making a baseline. "They're probably betting on the fact that anyone who wants more demanding PC hardware on their TV is part of the audience who know how to turn any PC into a Steam Machine," Douse argues.

[…] Douse says, Valve are setting a baseline. "If Valve can once again normalise and thus create that entry point there is potential for big growth in that new market". Once Gabe and his kin establish a baseline, other companies, such as ASUS and Lenovo, can roll in with their more powerful machines.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 30 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think he's absolutely right, and I hope Valve has considered this (and they probably have). This needs to be a door-opener, not a powerhouse.

[–] fonix232@fedia.io 17 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Most definitely.

Valve's main success here will be establishing SteamOS as a de facto replacement for some 60-70% of PCs. Hell, I've built a gaming PC a little over a year ago, and am still running Windows on it, but only for one reason: no first party support from SteamOS.

Once that's sorted... My need for Windows will disappear basically, aside from the very occasional ancient Windows utility I might need to use (old Rockchip flashing tools come to mind), but those usually run quite well enough in a VM.

Make a baseline Steam Machine, let people adapt their PCs to it easily, and you won over the gaming market. Expand that with support for third party launcher integration and you've literally got every single fanboy, gamer, etc., on your platform.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

am still running Windows on it, but only for one reason: no first party support from SteamOS.

For the most part, it SteamOS isn't really necessary to get a serviceable desktop gaming experience. Pick a well-supported rolling release distro or a derivative, install Steam and Proton, and games mostly just work.

It's not perfect, but it's usable. The only real pain point around gaming is getting HDR working properly.

Closed-source software is a different story, however. Discord's Wayland support is basically nonexistent and the AFK detection thinks you're always in front of the computer, suppressing mobile notifications.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Actually, you can get most of Valve's work without SteamOS. I'm running Mint and it works great.

[–] fonix232@fedia.io 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Actually, that's not what I want or need.

First party support here needs to include system drivers (including GPU) from primary sources (aka no "just add this repo and install this DKMS and run that installer", it should work OOTB for the most common hardware).

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's what has happened to me. I haven't installed a single driver yet, in about a year.

But I dunno. Maybe I just won the lottery.

[–] fonix232@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'll give it a go sometimes, but the AMD CPU + Nvidia GPU combo wasn't exactly winner the last time I tried.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Yeah, that might not work as well. I'm on a Framework laptop that hasn't been modified much.

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Of course they have considered it. It is literally their model for handheld form factor gaming laptops (aka "Steam Deck"). And it is what they tried with round 1 of Steam Machines.

The real problem is going to be... all the problems that those of us with a Linux HTPC have. Streaming of media won't be a thing since most services have DRM that relies on HDCP handshakes these days. Also people are going to learn the fun way why that AMD setup only supports "HDMI 2.0" (although there are workarounds to get most 2.1 functionality out of a display port adapter). Let alone just general weirdness that tends to not come up when everything is one integrated device.

Consoles have gone a LONG way towards ruining "it just works". But I spent an hour or so yesterday finally flashing my display port dongle and it involved a second device to SSH into my HTPC and, in the process, I ended up needing to re-pair my xbox controller afterwards. I am used to that kind of bullshit and think it is fun. The first time that happens to someone you can expect all of social media to start caring that GabeN is a weird rich lunatic and insisting that Kojima-san and Sony will fix everything with the PS6 or whatever bullshit.

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[–] neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

Larian proving again and again, that they get it.

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[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think the goal is providing an alternate path for people migrating from windows 10 as much as it is a living room pc.

[–] Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Ehh

I feel like most people that really care about their operating system are more than likely going to build a PC

Most people buying a pre-built device are like Apple users "It just works"

I have an expensive PC I built but I'm a console gamer

I enjoy a comfy couch, big TV, and controller.

It's the ease of just hitting a couple buttons and getting to play a game.

Could I hook my PC to my TV? Yes, but that would require me to move my PC from my desk.

Also things like controllers. If I hooked my PC to my TV to play something like Overwatch I'd have to play with m/kb people which I would be at a severe disadvantage if I played with a controller.

Like if Xbox overwatch allowed m/kb (yeah I know people cheat) I'd probably stop playing it.

It's the PC gamers that always want consoles to support m/kb. Console gamers do not want to play on m/kb.

In my mind lack of m/kb is why consoles exist

People aren't buying PS/Xbox for a living room PC. They want a console gaming experience

[–] offspec@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Most people locked out of upgrading from W10 to W11 have never built a computer and will never build a computer. They are liable to throw away their existing computer and purchase a new one. W10 is EOL and W11 has a restrictive list of prerequisites.

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[–] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 month ago

With SSD, memory prices, and GPU prices still going up, releasing console-beating Steam Machines still seems way over the horizon to plan for. Once the AI bubble "pops", maybe .. but with so much going on in the world in terms of geopolitics also threatening to affect markets, I wouldn't dare to look into the future.

[–] LifeOfChance@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Ive wanted to get into PC gaming for awhile but I just don't have the room or the care to set something up its why I use consoles. Every time I mention this ill get a billion messages about ways to make it work. I'm a simple person I want to plug it in and turn it on which is why I use consoles. I dont play enough games to justify a full set up. I plan to plug my PS5 controller into this (I think its able?) And enjoy.

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago

Unless you are going for console exclusives, a PC is upgradable and can be just about as plug and play, specially now with SteamOS. The SteamDeck has really helped normalized control schemes into their gamepad.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

I plan to plug my PS5 controller into this (I think its able?)

Yes, because everything runs through Steam, which support the DS5.

[–] Ashiette@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It's able ! However my experience on Linux tells me to warn you that having the PS4 controller work only requires plug and play, having the PS5 controller work requires a few (moderate) tweaks

[–] pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What tweaks did you require? I just start ps5 controller and it works.

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[–] zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Valve has amazing hardware engineering skills and I have no idea, why companies like ASUS struggle to compete. They struggled with the Steam Deck, they will struggle with the Steam Machine.

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Because valve does not need to profit,since they get money from people buying games.

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[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If other hardware vendors are going to follow, they have to be using SteamOS or something similar out of the box. Handhelds can somewhat get away with using Windows because of the touch screen, but a "console" experience that occasionally requires plugging in a keyboard and mouse to get past some controller-unfriendly menu or pop-up is just going to annoy users.

[–] elvith@feddit.org 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Any other Distribution and even Windows would work fine, as long as you set up passwordless autologon as a default user and then put Steam in Big Picture Mode as autostart.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Respectfully, I'm going to have to disagree about stock Windows working fine. There are multiple places where it necessitates having a keyboard and/or mouse connected.

  • Interacting with UAC prompts and other elevated-permission windows that block synthetic input events.
  • When a popup hijacks focus away from the game window.
  • When Steam (or other controller to mouse software) is not open, such as during the logoff screen where you sometimes have to click "Close Anyways".
  • After a BIOS update, when the TPM refuses to unlock and you need to enter the BitLocker recovery key within the pre-boot environment.
[–] elvith@feddit.org 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You can disable UAC (thinking practical, not necessarily security minded - but for an auto login w/o password, what’s security?)

Popups: yes. But then you’d need to actively use other software besides steam. Why would you do that, if using only a controller? Also that can happen in Linux, too. If you mean those desktop notifications - those should be silenced automagically when running games.

For the logoff or shutdown: Set or createHKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\AutoEndTasks to 1 to auto kill hanging/not ending processes automagically. Also you can use WaitToKillAppTimeout there to define how long windows should wait before killing the processes (in milliseconds).

And regarding bitlocker after a bios update: why would you use bitlocker on such a machine (auto login on boot which would allow access to all files anyways)? Anyways, set or create HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BitLocker\PreventDeviceEncryption to 1 to prevent bitlocker from running after an upgrade. With Pro, you could also leverage GPOs for that.

At least for the new Steam Gamepad they announced trackpads to be able to control the mouse with the gamepad, so clicking away a popup or sich shouldn’t be a problem.

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[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago (5 children)

If this thing is $499, I will buy it, as I’ve wanted to get into PC gaming for a while and I will probably spend more in games. If it is more than $499, I will buy a used PS5 and continue to think about building a cool gaming PC and getting into PC gaming.

[–] magic_lobster_party@fedia.io 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think $700-$800 is a more realistic range unfortunately. It depends on how thin margins Valve is willing to accept, but I don’t think they want to sell at a loss like the typical console manufacturer.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I don’t know why they wouldn’t consider selling at a loss if it means bringing a massive user base over to their gaming ecosystem where they take a 30% cut of game sales. 700-800 is probably a good price point for what you get. I’m just not a big enough gamer to justify dropping that kind of money on a setup to try out PC gaming.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Console manufacturers sell at a loss because they have to sell the hardware first before they can sell anything else. They know they'll get that money back on software you couldn't have bought without the console.

While I'm sure Valve hopes to bring some new customers to Steam this way, I'll bet that the majority of Steam Machines sold will be to users who are already invested in Steam and have an existing library of games to play. If they take a loss on hardware, they can't be certain they're actually making up for it elsewhere.

It's not practical for the Machine to be a loss leader because it's a supplementary product, not one the rest of their business is dependent on.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They used the same strategy for the steam deck. Valve acknowledged that it was sold at a loss or near loss and it was incredibly successful because it broke into the handheld market. Don’t know why they wouldn’t do the same for this console like system. I’m hoping they do.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do you have a source for that? All I can find are conflicting rumors and speculation.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] missingno@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The only actual quote here is

Price point was secondary and painful. But that was pretty clearly a critical aspect to it.

But Newell didn't actually say it was at a loss, did he? Seems like they're just speculating.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You picked one quote out of both those articles to interpret as your counter to my point? Seems to me this isn’t even an argument. It’s a consensus among anyone that understands the cost of building that device. Amazing that your response to me providing sources is “But the owner didn’t say it explicitly, so it doesn’t count.” Are you 12 years old? Why don’t you provide some sources about how profitable the steam deck was?

[–] missingno@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I picked the quote that's actually attributed to Gabe. The second link you gave doesn't even have any quotes at all.

It doesn't sound like Valve actually did confirm this, but that some news outlets ran with a rumor.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hey if you wanna interpret Gabe’s quotes of aggressive and painful pricing as something other than a loss or close to a loss as I said in my comment, while ignoring the theoretical cost of building a device like that, and the precedent set by so many other companies trying to break into a market like that, there’s nothing else I can say to get you off “winning” this argument. So yeah, I’m sure you’re right. I’m sure Valve is just banking on a bunch of existing steam users to want to buy a $700–$800 mid range box so they don’t have to move their PC into their living room to game on the couch. Solid business model.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That could just as easily mean the profit margins were thin, not necessarily negative. I asked if there was actual confirmation that it's being sold at a loss, because all I could find was speculation, and you gave me speculation.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I said loss or near loss if you want to be pedantic about it instead of addressing the evidence that they didn’t make money on steam deck hardware in order to increase user base, which was the point of my comment in hopes that they would do the same for the console.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This conversation started with you saying you expected Valve to sell the Machine at a loss, me explaining why that's unlikely, followed by you saying the Deck was definitely sold at a loss. You can't backpedal that to near loss now.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Wtf are you talking about!? This conversation started with me saying I hope they sell the console at 499 and I don’t know why they wouldn’t consider selling at a loss for hardware, which would be following a proven strategy used by so many other companies (including themselves!!) trying to break into a market.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Go back and reread my first comment? $499 is absolutely not happening.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

Lmao, your first comment is what I’m arguing against! Incredible dialectic, really.

[–] Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You have to consider that this is a pc and can be mass purchased by industries other than gaming.

[–] myspecialpurpose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Who else is buying a PC designed for gaming for non gaming stuff? What other industry is this an optimal build and design for? The last steam machine didn’t sell outside of its intended audience. Why would this one?

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[–] artyom@piefed.social 6 points 1 month ago

Probably slightly more than that, but it's worth considering the long-term costs. Steam does not have a monthly subscription (minimum $160/yr with PS), they often have massive price cuts in their seasonal sales, and even many games can be had completely for free. Epic gives them away every week. GOG gives them away on occasion. And if you're an Amazon Prime subscriber, that includes several games a week as well.

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