this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2025

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What the democrats just did. (infosec.pub)

submitted 7 hours ago by skeezix@lemmy.world to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 5 points 2 hours ago

But they got a "promise" on a vote later.

I mean can you blame them? They dug their heels in and said we're are only going to compromise if they give into our health care demands.

The Republicans said no to this so the shutdown began. They were about to find a compromise, but suddenly the Republicans said no again (Trumpy wants to play replace Romney Care again)

This is when you have to cave, when you don't get what you want and nothing was resolved. After all, after 10+ years with nothing to replace it the Republicans have got to be allowed some more time.

[–] I_Jedi@lemmy.today 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I hear stocks on spelunking equipment are going up.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 2 hours ago

it would be more correct if the cave actually "caved in"

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 25 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

They held out until the election was over. They had the voters behind them on this and naturally betrayed them immediately as soon as they got what they wanted.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -3 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

They had the voters behind them on this

You just say whatever 'feels' right, huh?

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Did you even read your own source? <5% of registered dems blamed the dems, and ~21% of registered independents.

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53352-are-people-changing-their-minds-about-the-shutdown

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 0 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Americans are divided in who they blame more for the shutdown: In a choice between congressional Democrats and congressional Republicans, 32% blame Democrats most, 35% Republicans, and 28% both equally. Compared to when we asked this question in the October 17 - 20 Economist / YouGov survey, the share blaming mostly Republicans has fallen 4 percentage points and the share blaming both sides equally has gone up by 4 points.

A shutdown, furthermore, that most voters were against to begin with.

I'm happy that the Dems held out. Hell, I'm happy that the majority is still holding out, despite those breaking ranks looking to undermine the effort. But that's not the same as pretending we are the fucking majority

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

You just defend the worst actions of democrats no matter what they do.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -4 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

So no response to actual evidence that the voters weren't behind them, cool.

I guess your inner Republican craves 'truthiness' over truth, huh?

I don't support the 8 Dems who broke ranks, but that's fucking different from pretending that this was a popular shutdown.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

So no response to actual evidence that the voters weren’t behind them, cool.

You're not owed interaction on your terms. You're not entitled to a debate, sea lion.

I don’t support the 8 Dems who broke ranks

You are by making excuses for their actions. And I don't believe for an instant that you don't support this. You had your one little poll just ready to go for when your wing of the party did what you wanted, just like you spent an entire year supporting them BECAUSE they were selling weapons to netanyahu.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

You’re not owed interaction on your terms. You’re not entitled to a debate, sea lion.

lmao

The meaning of Sea Lioning is not "Refutes my points 😭" but "Insists on an engagement by bad faith inquiries"

Engaging with me, and after I presented evidence, not a question, is as far from proving me a Sea Lion as you can get.

Sorry that refuting your bullshit hurt your feelings.

You are by making excuses for their actions.

Where did I excuse their actions?

And I don’t believe for an instant that you don’t support this.

lmao

You had your one little poll just ready to go for when your wing of the party did what you wanted,

lmao

just like you spent an entire year supporting them BECAUSE they were selling weapons to netanyahu.

Fucking lmao.

I've been calling out Israeli genocide and advocating against all US aid for Israel for longer than Lemmy has existed, but go off, I guess.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

The meaning of Sea Lioning is not “Refutes my points 😭” but “Insists on an engagement by bad faith inquiries”

Yes. Which is what you were doing.

Where did I excuse their actions?

By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.

I’ve been calling out Israeli genocide and advocating against all US aid for Israel for longer than Lemmy has existed, but go off, I guess.

And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.

If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won. Now their voters are seeing that they've been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn't betray you.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Yes. Which is what you were doing.

You think that... citing a source... and saying that you are incorrect... is a question.

And you think that responding to me in an argument is me attempting to engage an unwilling participant by use of bad faith inquiries.

... fucking what.

By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.

I don't 'know better', as public discontent over the shutdown is serious. I fear the backlash from the shutdown. I support the shutdown continuing for the dual reasons of the inhumanity of the GOP proposal and the fact that the backlash from GOP cuts might be worse in the long run not because I believe the shutdown is some massively popular issue at the moment. Some 70% of the electorate didn't want the Dems to pull the trigger on the shutdown - I'm glad they did anyway! But that's really fucking different from pretending that there's mass support for the issue.
At no point was justification offered for the eight Dems who broke ranks; only that the notion that they had the voters 'behind them' was ridiculous by the numbers.

And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.

Ah, yes, "Please don't assist the fascist, he's literally more pro-Israel than even Biden", the sin that a Very Real Leftist(tm) like yourself could never forgive. Any number of murdered minorities, after all, including additional murdered Palestinians, is worth your moral high ground of banging the drum against the great monolith of "The DEMS"

If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won.

What the fuck?

Now their voters are seeing that they’ve been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn’t betray you.

Lord.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

And you think that responding to me in an argument is me attempting to engage an unwilling participant by use of bad faith inquiries.

I had no desire to engage on your terms. Since I'm not named netanyahu, you don't care what I think.

Ah, yes, “Please don’t assist the fascist, he’s literally more pro-Israel than even Biden”, the sin that a Very Real Leftist™ like yourself could never forgive.

that hasn't been your messaging. Your messaging has been constant abuse at anyone who doesn't like genocide for any reason at all.

Any number of murdered minorities, after all, including additional murdered Palestinians, is worth your moral high ground of banging the drum against the great monolith of “The DEMS”

You preferred the murdered minorities over telling netanyahu no.

If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won.

What the fuck?

Centrists can't understand the concept of a mandate from the people.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I had no desire to engage on your terms. Since I’m not named netanyahu, you don’t care what I think.

... you're literally here, engaging, albeit doing so with subpar literacy and reasoning skills.

that hasn’t been your messaging. Your messaging has been constant abuse at anyone who doesn’t like genocide for any reason at all.

Lord.

You preferred the murdered minorities over telling netanyahu no.

Fucking what.

Do you not understand what I'm saying, or is this non-sequitur intentional?

Or do you think I'm secretly Biden himself?

Centrists can’t understand the concept of a mandate from the people.

... fucking what.

Do you... do you not understand the difference between elections at different levels of government? Do you not understand the concept of popularity and unpopularity enduring from one moment to the next, as with Mamdani's months-long lead, or are you incapable of conceptualizing anything outside of your immediate moment of consciousness right now?

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

… you’re literally here, engaging

But not on your terms.

albeit doing so with subpar literacy and reasoning skills.

There's some of that abuse I mentioned. You just can't help yourself.

that hasn’t been your messaging. Your messaging has been constant abuse at anyone who doesn’t like genocide for any reason at all.

Lord.

That's not a denial.

Do you not understand what I’m saying, or is this non-sequitur intentional?

Understanding it and buying it are two different things.

Or do you think I’m secretly Biden himself?

No, you're to his right.

Do you… do you not understand the difference between elections at different levels of government?

I do. I also understand that the democrats' brand was in the toilet because they did what pro-genocide anti-worker anti-healthcare centrists like you wanted for so long. The second it started looking like they were changing for the better and had acquired a spine, they started winning again.

Turns out, no. They were just pretending to have a spine until the polls closed. Yet another shutdown where democrats get nothing because they capitulate like you want.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

But not on your terms.

You are literally responding to the points I raise, even if in a manner that gives no doubt as to your subpar (and by the already low standards of the American electorate) grasp of the issues.

There’s some of that abuse I mentioned. You just can’t help yourself.

Ah yes, the good old "I might be a genocide enabler, but you were mean to me, and that's worse!"

You never fail to trot it out.

That’s not a denial.

I'm sorry for your lack of reading comprehension.

Understanding it and buying it are two different things.

Except I didn't expect you to 'buy it', I expected you to understand it, which clearly you didn't. That's what a non-sequitur response is - one which does not address the original point at all, not one which disagrees with it or disputes some fundamental part of it.

Or do you think I’m secretly Biden himself?

No, you’re to his right.

Fucking lmao.

I do. I also understand that the democrats’ brand was in the toilet because they did what pro-genocide anti-worker anti-healthcare centrists like you wanted for so long.

I'm sorry for being a Bernie and Mamdani supporter, an anti-Zionist, and a socialist, lmao.

The second it started looking like they were changing for the better and had acquired a spine, they started winning again.

Again, this reflects a truly astounding lack of understanding of the interplay of the Federal shutdown with state and municipal elections.

But I guess like a toddler enamored with a toy, there's only room for one thing on your mind at any given moment.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Ah yes, the good old “I might be a genocide enabler, but you were mean to me, and that’s worse!”

You spent an entire year cheerleading the bidenyahu genocide while being abusive to anyone who doesn't love it as much as you always have and always will.

I’m sorry for being a Bernie and Mamdani supporter, an anti-Zionist, and a socialist, lmao.

You should be sorry for repeatedly lying like that.

Again, this reflects a truly astounding lack of understanding of the interplay of the Federal shutdown with state and municipal elections.

Again, you have no idea of how branding works. Or you like the party's current "fuck off if you're not literally netanyahu" branding.

But I guess like a toddler

Anyone who wants to can look at your comments and see that you do nothing but namecall anyone who disagrees with the capitulation you enthusiastically support.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 0 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

You spent an entire year cheerleading the bidenyahu genocide while being abusive to anyone who doesn’t love it as much as you always have and always will.

Fucking lmao.

I'm sorry for opposing fascism, I know that's the sin of sins to you.

You should be sorry for repeatedly lying like that.

Two instances and a year and a half ago...

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

I’m sorry for opposing fascism

I'm sorry you never have.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 hours ago

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 24 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

C'mon guys. The Republicans are totally going to fix healthcare just like they promised in ~~1993~~, ~~2002~~, ~~2008~~, ~~2010~~, ~~2016~~ ~~2017~~, ~~2020~~, ~~2024~~, The Last Week.

Shouldn't take more than about two weeks.

[–] RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world 12 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Please tell me they at least have concepts of a plan

[–] Lawnman23@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago

They do. Get rid of the ACA and make you pay for insurance directly with funds they will supposedly give to you based on…TBD.

And yes, it’s true.

[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Nah, there's a light at the end if that "cave", but not the real one.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 hour ago

You mean the oncoming train about to run over everyone who's not a rich white Christian fascist man?

[–] BC_viper@lemmy.world 26 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

They fucking caved. And they are now fucking traitors. And there is only one option for a traitor fuck.

[–] Gigasser@lemmy.world 8 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

The 8 who caved: Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia Sen. Angus King of Maine Sen. Jacky Rosen of Nevada Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 hour ago

Not familiar with the last two, but all the rest are amongst the most frequent collaborators with the fascists, usually COMPLETELY contrary to the wishes and needs of their constituencies.

They must all be primaried as soon as possible!

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 2 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Fuck them all. Especially Kaine and Fetterman.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 5 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

But they HAD to! The shutdown was so UNPOPULAR that democrats all LOST in the most recent election!

/s not because the sarcasm isn't obvious, but because I don't trust centrists to not ignore the sarcasm on purpose.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

The shutdown was so UNPOPULAR that democrats all LOST in the most recent election!

If you think that the FEDERAL shutdown was a major issue for the Mayor of New York City (who had been leading in the polls for months) and the governorship of New Jersey and Virginia (where the polls had also been clear since before the shutdown), you're out of your gourd.

Or bullshitting in bad faith, as per usual.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

If you think that the FEDERAL shutdown was a major issue for the Mayor of New York City (who had been leading in the polls for months) and the governorship of New Jersey and Virginia (where the polls had also been clear since before the shutdown), you’re out of your gourd.

If you think that the voters didn't respond well to a party that was finally pretending to start stand up for them, you have no idea how branding works. Well, at least they capitulated like they do on everything but genocide support, so healthcare subsidies are going away. So it's a win for you. Democrats existing brand, the one everyone but centrists like you were pissed off about, is maintained.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If you think that the voters didn’t respond well to a party that was finally pretending to start stand up for them, you have no idea how branding works.

The same voters who increasingly blamed the Dems for the shutdown as it's dragged on?

I'm sorry that you live in a fantasy land instead of the real world. I understand that the reality-based community is deeply offensive to you.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

The same voters who increasingly blamed the Dems for the shutdown as it’s dragged on?

I suppose we'll see if capitulation makes them more popular.

I’m sorry that you live in a fantasy land instead of the real world.

Says the guy who is trying to convince people that capitulation is a good thing after the party was rewarded for standing its ground.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social -1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Says the guy who is trying to convince people that capitulation is a good thing after the party was rewarded for standing its ground.

Is it that you can't parse what I'm saying, and thus have no choice but to fill in the blanks with fantasy; or is it that you find it more satisfying to tilt against windmills?

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Is it that you can’t parse what I’m saying,

I'm not buying your pro-capitulation bullshit. None of it. Democrats were more steadfast in their support of netanyahu's genocide than they have ever been about healthcare.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I’m not buying your pro-capitulation bullshit.

I don’t support the 8 Dems who broke ranks, but that’s fucking different from pretending that this was a popular shutdown.

Sorry, was that too far back for you to remember?

Democrats were more steadfast in their support of netanyahu’s genocide than they have ever been about healthcare.

Where the fuck did I say otherwise?

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Sorry, was that too far back for you to remember?

No, I just don't believe you. You claim that you don't support them while supporting them by making excuses for them. Actions speak louder.

Where the fuck did I say otherwise?

Oh. I see. You're defending useless democrats because they were more steadfast in support of genocide than they are for healthcare.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

No, I just don’t believe you. You claim that you don’t support them while supporting them by making excuses for them.

Lord.

Actions speak louder.

... except my only action here has been to write words.

But I suppose "Words are louder than words" might reveal how intellectually vacuous your entire position is.

Oh. I see. You’re defending useless democrats because they were more steadfast in support of genocide than they are for healthcare.

Lord.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

You're getting nitpicky. But you're right. Making excuses for the people who capitulated like you wanted them to is words, not actions. Your words excusing them put the lie to your claim that you don't support them. Excuses are support.

If you don't want to be treated as an apologist, don't engage in apologia.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

fetterman isnt surprising he made pretty known like a year now. the other 8-10 dinos felt safe to come out of the woodwork to show them they are really DINOS.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 3 points 2 hours ago

Yeah, that's why fuck him especially. He's been a piece of shit for a while.

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

yes, we give them all of our money.

[–] obinice@lemmy.world 10 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

They... Went into a tunnel? This is something to do with the USA isn't it xD

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 3 points 3 hours ago

They caved... Bigly.

[–] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

They some big ass holes

[–] db2@lemmy.world 13 points 6 hours ago

The political party they tell you not to worry about:

[–] cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

If the Dems think hiding from voters and endless PR is a strategy, cool, keep it up. Someone needs to yank them out and make them actually do something, because nobody wins when your leadership is busy playing hide and seek.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 7 points 5 hours ago

DEMS dont really have a campaign strategy that is not aoc, bernie, other than riding the coattails of the gop when they do something bad to ruin the economy.