this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2025
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Rant

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Online left-wing infighting seems to me to be about applying labels to people because they argue or have argued one thing on a particular topic, and then use it to discredit an unrelated argument topic or paint their overall character. I know there are pot-stirring trolls and compulsive contrarians, but I do witness users I personally judge to have genuine convictions do this amongst each other.

Within US politics, CA Gov. Newsom is an illustrative example (plenty of examples exist too for other countries and around Lemmy/Fedi). I don't particularly like him, he has done things I think are good, some things I think are funny, something things I think are bad and some things I think are downright horrible. Yet I have encountered some users online who will say they can't ever applaud a move of his if one specific other policy or set of other unrelated policies crossed a line for them. I'm not asking people to change their mind on what they think of a person because of an isolated good thing they do, but to at least acknowledge it as a good thing or add nuance describing what about it you like or don't. I can accept saying "I don't think this is a good thing in this circumstance", "this person will not follow through with this thing I think is good thing because ___", or "they are doing a good thing for wrong and selfish reasons" too. But to outright deny any support for an action because of a wildly extrapolated character judgement of the person doing it, when that user would support it otherwise, vexes me greatly.

I know this is not every or most interactions on Lemmy, but these are just some thoughts I have to get out of my head. You don't have to agree with me. I'm using 'left-wing' because the definition of 'leftist' or 'liberal' is wide-ranging depending on who you talk to. And on the side of the spectrum I'm calling left to left-centre, we seem to let the fewer things we disagree with get in the way of the many more things we would agree with each other. That's all, thanks for reading.

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[–] Bloefz@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I'm very left-wing but the thing with 'us' is, that we still have principles. The extreme right is long past any kind of principle or fact. They just live in a fantasy world inventing things to get themselves angry about. Anyone who disagrees in the slightest with today's narrative will be cancelled from their community. But for us the facts still matter. And that meand we sometimes disagree.

I wouldn't call someone like Newsom 'left' though. He's left by US standards but for the rest of the world he would still be pretty right-wing. And strongly capitalist/neoliberal.

Anyway you can rant all you like but I'm not going to 'fall in line'. It's just a concept alien to me. I have my own goals and principles and I don't align with others. I might join forces temporarily but that's about it. I still remain the only one who decides how I feel on each topic. And I will change my political alliances as I go.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

Thanks, I respect that. I don't want you to change or abandon your principles just for the sake of being agreeable. You know you can hold different principles in a variety of topics, and my main ask is that in discussion we be clear where these principles align and where they do not.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I hear ya. In fact your rant overlaps quite a bit with my own rants against witch hunters (people who screech, bash, or try to denounce someone else, online and in the open, with little to no grounds to do so).

I know this is not every or most interactions on Lemmy, but...

...but it's like biting into something rotten: the foul taste lingers for a while, no matter how much good food you have afterwards.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

Thanks for the sympathy, your analogy describes it well.

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You know the concept of Critical Support? In the case of Newsom, who if he didn’t lose a general, would demonstrate to another generation of voters that the dem party is not a potential vehicle for positive social change, its the opposite, critical opposition.

I'm sure there were social democrats in 1933 complaining that communists weren't getting in line behind the left-most faction of the NSDAP.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

I'm not familiar with Critical Support in this context and I'm having trouble understanding your comment, but thank you for sharing. I sense that you believe USA is already a one-party state with a token opposition, but I can't glean much more than that. I'm not asking you to fall in line or change your principles, just be clearer about where you agree or disagree with a policy or person.

If you'd like a 1930s fascism analogy, if Mussolini wants the trains to run on time, you don't have to call for trains to run late just because Mussolini wants the opposite. And in contexts outside of where this was being used as a campaign slogan or dogwhistle for fascism, the fact you want the trains to be on time doesn't necessarily mean you support Mussolini or their party, or that you trust them to actually make trains run on time. And it does not mean you want Jews, communists and outsiders to be oppressed nor that you support any of the dictatorial reforms he put in.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I’m sure there were social democrats in 1933 complaining that communists weren’t getting in line behind the left-most faction of the NSDAP.

Replace NSDAP with the centrist coalition to defeat NSDAP and this is unironically 100% correct. The communists were furious at the very suggestion, and were still fistfighting in the streets with SPD supporters while then plans were being drawn up for both of them to go into the camps. How is this your example lol?

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[–] mat@jlai.lu 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There are some discussions about this topic in France too, and let me explain my POV to you: I am leaning toward anarcho-communism, but it's not represented by any big political party. The compromise I can make is LFI, as they are able to criticize capitalism. Other left party are like "I don't know what else" for the greens, our communist party does not use class warfare since a long time, and the socialist party has always betrayed any idea of left politic. Any alliance between LFI and such parties would mean compromission at some point. I'd rather have them over promise on the left to apply social policies, that compromise with the socialists and having nothing done.

In the end, it usually boils down to political orientation that are fundamentally inconsistent, eg social-liberalism and social democratism. And if you ask me, being pro-capital is right leaning, as trying to be socialist with capitalism in place is doomed to fail in the end

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[–] iii@mander.xyz 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I genuinely think those loud, puritan, anti-social leftist zealots are the major reason people vote opposite.

That terrible vegans hating on vegetarians behaviour, spoiling the whole idea for so many people, simply by being obnoxious.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No.. If you're going to vote for a fascist you were always going to vote for the fascist.

You were just looking for a socially acceptable reason.

[–] iii@mander.xyz 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

You're one of those? A small minded American who can't imagine there's a world outside US politics?

Well here's an outsider's perspective: it's people like you that drive voters away from reasonable policy. You are making your own country a worse place by being anti-social.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm open minded. Give me an actual example of someone on the Left being so obnoxious that you felt that voting for a Fascist was a better option.

[–] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You're not open minded, at all. Not realising that is part of the package. You, as you were doing at the moment, were a very good example of obnoxious, head up your own ass behaviour, that drives reasonable people away from good policy.

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