this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2025
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Online left-wing infighting seems to me to be about applying labels to people because they argue or have argued one thing on a particular topic, and then use it to discredit an unrelated argument topic or paint their overall character. I know there are pot-stirring trolls and compulsive contrarians, but I do witness users I personally judge to have genuine convictions do this amongst each other.

Within US politics, CA Gov. Newsom is an illustrative example (plenty of examples exist too for other countries and around Lemmy/Fedi). I don't particularly like him, he has done things I think are good, some things I think are funny, something things I think are bad and some things I think are downright horrible. Yet I have encountered some users online who will say they can't ever applaud a move of his if one specific other policy or set of other unrelated policies crossed a line for them. I'm not asking people to change their mind on what they think of a person because of an isolated good thing they do, but to at least acknowledge it as a good thing or add nuance describing what about it you like or don't. I can accept saying "I don't think this is a good thing in this circumstance", "this person will not follow through with this thing I think is good thing because ___", or "they are doing a good thing for wrong and selfish reasons" too. But to outright deny any support for an action because of a wildly extrapolated character judgement of the person doing it, when that user would support it otherwise, vexes me greatly.

I know this is not every or most interactions on Lemmy, but these are just some thoughts I have to get out of my head. You don't have to agree with me. I'm using 'left-wing' because the definition of 'leftist' or 'liberal' is wide-ranging depending on who you talk to. And on the side of the spectrum I'm calling left to left-centre, we seem to let the fewer things we disagree with get in the way of the many more things we would agree with each other. That's all, thanks for reading.

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[–] marcela@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Weaponized sincerity is a term defined by Katherine Cross ("Log off") as an online behavior opposite to trolling, and genuine in intent, but equally harmful as malicious trolling. The example she herself gives is about a woman who cooked a meal for her refugee neighbors or sth, and after a couple hours people were at each other throats, fighting about her infantilizing immigrants or not. It is ubiquitous in Lemmy and once you learn about it you can't unsee it.

[–] marcela@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 hours ago

Extracts from Katherine Cross's Log off: Why posting and politics almost never mix. Pasted verbatim.

It’s worth taking a second to define weaponized sincerity. Weaponized sincerity is where extreme takes are born. It’s a mode that deploys ever more esoteric manipulations of social justice concepts for the purpose of being edgy or controversial, while still earnestly pursuing some noble idea. It’s the 0-to-60-in-two-seconds-flat acceleration of an innocuous bit of posting into a mass callout. It’s being nebulously accused of being X-phobic or silencing Y-group or being imperialist when all you were doing was, for instance, delivering chili to your neighbours.

One evening in 2022, a relatively prominent lefty Twitter user posted the following:

several guys moved in next door, students I guess. and I’ve gotten two confused door-dash drivers for them in the last week, and their trash can was completely overflowing with pizza boxes. i don’t think they cook. i am feeling such a strange motherly urge to feed these boys... They’re incredibly quiet which is a real surprise. I dunno if they’re renting or what but I would like them to stick around. Maybe I will make a big pot of chili this weekend when it gets cooler.

This, somehow, ignited a firestorm. She was accused of coddling “manchildren,” of being “presumptuous” or otherwise rude, of ableism for ignoring potential allergies, and of being a white saviour.

"For the love of god, stop babying men. This is why they learn to take advantage of their wives" went one tweet, apparently blaming this woman for the endurance of sexism and unequal marriages. Another tweet read, in part, "The intent was good, right? No. It was presumptive and stereotypical [white people] shit."

The harassment went on for days.

It was a flaming gout of internet rage that reached into the stratosphere of the mainstream press. Even the Washington Post reported on the controversy — and it got its money’s worth from the world’s most efficient content farm. The article wasn’t just a news report; it was an advice column. WaPo food reporter Emily Heil used the incident to ask etiquette experts for their opinions on how best to share food with strangers.

The social media food fight left us exhausted but also wondering: Have the rules for giving home-cooked foods changed? Does the simple act of baking a casserole or cookies for a stranger have to be so fraught? We asked two experts for guidance.

Imagine the horror of having such an innocuous post lead to three people you’ve never met dissecting your behaviour in the pages of a national newspaper.

In the event, the leftist in question delivered the chili, it was well-received, and the young men helped her fix a fence. Outside the swirling cyclone of Discourse, a rather ordinary and charming exchange took place. On Twitter, this pot of chili had to be saddled with the unbearable weight of some of the most important issues of our time. Even a Le Creuset can’t hold that.

But, worst of all, because most of the Washington Post’s newsroom is on Twitter, they made this sorry spectacle into everyone’s problem. Even New York City’s Fox affiliate got in on the action, with an article entitled “A Chili Controversy? Neighbor’s Good Deed Draws Online Outrage.” Their source was the Washington Post.

I’m talking as if weaponized sincerity was the opposite of shitposting, its natural enemy. And in one sense it is. But, like all true opposites, it’s also a twin. Weaponized sincerity is the horrible second helix that wraps around irony culture, feeding off it and nourishing it in equal measure.

BTW while looking for this I found out she also defines sincerity like this:

One of the things I really can’t forgive social media for is how deeply it has corroded our sense of sincerity, making it uncool to care.

The one rule, if you can call it that, is to not appear to take anything seriously. Sincerity is anathema to shitposting.

So, all in all, I can figure she draws a continuum from irony culture, like people "so deep in layers of irony they don't know who they are anymore" to weaponized sincerity, like, people who will take everything literally to the exteme of its political and ideological severity. She seems to be placing "real" sincerity to a point closer to the center than its "weaponized" counterpart. But I am no expert, I just have seen this happening over lemmy and it clicked, so I think she is onto something.

Also a disclaimer, I am personally more on the weaponized sincerity side.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I did a cursory search but couldn't find too much on weaponized sincerity or Cross' writings on that. The best I can make out from what you wrote, is that weaponized sincerity is someone's act of goodwill getting contorted or (charitably) misinterpreted by others as an injustice upon them. You can tell me if I got it wrong.

[–] marcela@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think it is rather adding a very purist angle to everything while still having good intentions. This then pushes everyone to a more purist direction. I am bad at keeping track of sources, but I will try to quote the relevant context later if I can.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] marcela@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 hours ago

Posted above. No worries.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's not just online. Monty Python made a joke about the exact same infighting back in the 70's.

I’m not asking people to change their mind on what they think of a person because of an isolated good thing they do, but to at least acknowledge it as a good thing or add nuance describing what about it you like or don’t. I can accept saying “I don’t think this is a good thing in this circumstance”, “this person will not follow through with this thing I think is good thing because ___”, or “they are doing a good thing for wrong and selfish reasons” too. But to outright deny any support for an action because of a wildly extrapolated character judgement of the person doing it, when that user would support it otherwise, vexes me greatly.

Ah, but nuance isn't very motivating to the vast majority of people. Ego and having an identity is, though, and some people also crave conflict. Thinking this way serves all three, and having genuine convictions and good intentions doesn't preclude falling into that.

Balanced people tend not to burn time and emotional energy on politics for free, basically. Yes, I know that's a self-own.

[–] arendjr@programming.dev 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Balanced people tend not to burn time and emotional energy on politics for free, basically. Yes, I know that's a self-own.

As someone who’s literally currently writing a book/philosophy called Philosophy of Balance this one struck a chord 😅

But you are right, I’m burning a lot of time and energy on exactly this and I feel it makes people wary and skeptical of what’s wrong with me… When really, I don’t think anything is wrong with me now. Hasn’t always been like that though, so if I can help others ease their struggle by writing about my own, I think that’s worth it.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

I think the important thing, for those of us in the picture anyway, is to have humility, and be more aware of why we do what we do. We're not robots programmed to save the world; there's always something else driving it, just like other people have things that drive them.

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[–] archonet@lemy.lol 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

As much as I despise the idea of getting a Newsom presidency when he's about as "mediocre centrist" as politicians in the US come; it would still be leaps and bounds better than four more years of Trump, Vance, or whatever corrupt fuck crawls out from under the MAGA movement in 2028. I'm hoping primaries mean we get an actual candidate, so we could, I dunno, win on a progressive platform for a change -- but being realistic, if we're driving off a cliff and turning around is not an option, pumping the brakes is still better than stamping down on the gas.

This all, of course, assumes we still have free and fair elections come 2028, which is looking like an increasingly fanciful idea.

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[–] missingno@fedia.io 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

There are lines that need to be drawn. If a neo-nazi says they want to push neo-nazi policies in the name of defeating Trump, nope, still not letting them in the tent just because they said they're trying to beat Trump.

And if you can agree with that extreme hypothetical, then it just becomes a debate over where we draw that line, not over whether a line should be drawn at all. I think for a lot of people, "leftist infighting" is something that's only bad when other people do it, because they drew the line in a different place from you.

Getting a little less hypothetical here, I don't think it's acceptable to throw LGBTQ people under the bus in the name of defeating Trump. Even if you want a big tent, you're still stuck with a conflict on whether that tent should include LGBTQ people or Gavin Newsom. I'd rather have the former.

We have almost four years to find a better nominee than Gavin Newsom. I am positive that we can do better than him.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

If a neo-nazi says they want to push neo-nazi policies in the name of defeating Trump, nope, still not letting them in the tent just because they said they’re trying to beat Trump.

Boy, it sure is good that we're talking about exactly that, and not some totally different scenario.

We have almost four years to find a better nominee than Gavin Newsom. I am positive that we can do better than him.

Sounds great. I think OP's point (my point certainly) would be that as a random example, these people seem to spend lots and lots more time shitting on Democratic or leftist politicians than they do on trying to find someone better. Gavin Newsom? POS. Graham Platner? War criminal. Bernie? Zionist. AOC? Genocide supporter.

So who do they support? Why don't we hear them trying to rally support for those left-wing people instead (except when it comes around to the general election and they suddenly get super-passionate about voting third party because the Democrats haven't earned my vote, red line, lesser evil, and so on.)

The anti-homeless and anti-trans policies of gruesome newsom are not easily distinguished from the fascists policies tbf

[–] missingno@fedia.io 5 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Did you read the very next sentence? I made the hypothetical intentionally extreme in order to make a point.

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And I'm okay with your example, that would be to me best described as "even if it was for reasons you would like (defeating Trump) he did actions you think are bad (neo-Nazi-like, and specifically transphobic)". Like you can say that Newsom shouldn't belong in the Democrat tent because of this or that, but if he proposes housing policy that you think would be helpful, either link a material reason as to why his transphobia, previous deed or other negative quality would taint this proposal. Otherwise say something "I like this policy ...even if I don't like him" or "...even if he's a shitbird neo-lib transphobe" or "...even if he's probably just doing it to run for a future Presidency" or "...though most of the credit should go to the CA Assembly".

In a more extreme hypothetical, if Trump were to somehow get Grok or ChatGPT to slop out a universal US healthcare policy document that has comprehensive detail, I might applaud the plan itself on its merits, but of course I know Trump is a pathological liar, changes his mind all the time, his administration is full of idiots too evil and incompetent to implement it, and Republican, big pharma and insurance donors will never let that get off the ground and so I'd have little trust in that happening. But I would say "Trump, as much as I despise him, had a good idea for once that Democrats could actually try implementing for real", or "he's probably going to say the opposite after a quick chat with Perdue" instead of "I don't like this plan only because it came from Trump". Discourse would be better if we could separate the words/actions from the speaker, at least to start, but say why that speaker or a relevant larger context makes the words/actions unreliable if that's the case.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In a representative democracy, we don't just vote for policies that can be separated from their politicians. We vote for politicians.

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[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 9 points 2 days ago

Ed Koch said it best.

"If you agree with me 51% of the time, vote for me. If you agree with me 100% of the time, see a psychiatrist."

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have an overwhelmingly negative view of Newsom, and let me tell you: most of the people shitting themselves in fury over Newsom on here are the kind of people who celebrate their 'principled' advocacy of nonvoting in order to allow literal fascists to murder American minorities. They do not want to express approval of any good policy from 'the Dems', because that would weaken their argument that no one in the current system is capable of doing anything to improve anyone's life, which justifies their total abstention and visceral hatred for participation in 'electoral' politics.

And on the side of the spectrum I’m calling left to left-centre, we seem to let the fewer things we disagree with get in the way of the many more things we would agree with each other.

The problem is the same issue that leads to right-unity, but in reverse.

Most people do not make political allegiances based on policy opinions.

The right doesn't agree on anything, despite how it appears to many who are unfamiliar with right-wing discourse. But they define themselves as a community, largely defined in objection to modernity.

The left defines itself as many communities, and what ends up being important is not policy, but in-groups and out-groups. It doesn't matter what policy would help the working class, or minorities, or establish a more just or even more left-friendly situation going forward. What matters is the in-group being opposed to the out-group.

There are people on here who literally and openly decry 'turbolibs' as worse than literal Nazis. There are many who equate liberals with literal fascists (and they would spare not an instant reminding you that Bernie Sanders is a liberal).

They don't care about the people they claim to champion. They don't have actual policy concerns, though they might express opinions on policy in the abstract. All they care about is in-group and out-group.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Came to comment and you stole all of my thunder! :)

[–] StarlightDust@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Leftist infighting is often people being bigots, predators, or defenders. The right will not be held to account with conversations and discussion but the left will - though you should listen to survivor's warnings if they say someone has been dodging accountability for years and that they aren't worth the effort.

As an organiser, a large chunk of my work is ensuring that certain predators, bigots and defenders don't worm back in without changing anything. It means that survivors are safer to take part and that there is further freedom to speak up.

Prioritizing avoiding infighting to keep the peace is cop shit and is useful for predators, bigots and defenders to bide time. It also allows for a culture where those unaffected by those issues gain power.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Ah yes, if you kick everyone else out you can guarantee there's only one toxic person in the room.

The nice thing about this philosophy is that it's self-limiting, and so I don't have to worry about it.

[–] StarlightDust@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Actually, my own community is really nice and healthy. It takes a lot to get kicked out but people can choose not to hang out with people. Idiot.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You're not the first person who's given me a similar reply on the topic of left-wing infighting, and I'm sure you believe it. Which is sad, because I watch the cycles of purging and grief go around.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I appreciate the perspective, I understand and totally support the moderation policy of beehaw and blahaj zone. I do think it is good to have a tough stance and a no-tolerance policy of bigotry, abusers and jerks against the group you are trying to create a safe place to discuss for. Though I don't know what you mean by defender here.

What I'm trying to get at though, is about avoiding the assumptions and jumps to conclusions that people make in policy discussions. While I recognize this can come from real trauma inflicted on people in past interactions, that prevents real progress towards helpful solutions. Other replies have provided good examples.

We do need to root out problematic behaviour, but separately we also have to re-discover solidarity if the aim is to form a political bloc or movement that can accomplish things. I posit that creating and maintaing a safe space is an equally valid but not quite the same aim--one needs more focus on reducing infighting than the other.

I'm not particularly experienced in online moderation, especially in managing serious issues in those spaces, so I would have to ask a friend about it, though I think the space she manages has different rules to her own views from what she has said. I doubt that the same issues that I am talking about occur as frequently though. The internet is much more anonymous and its full of trolls. I actually think its much harder to cultivate a culture online. I don't really think that anyone is actively changing their mind through anonymous online discussion. The idea of that being a thing was part of an astroturfing campaign to normalise shitty views.

IRL, I work with others from all over the left and I tend to be someone who is responsible for the emotional labour of accountability. You can't physically completely ban people from a scene without convincing as many people as possible not to hang out with them. You can ban them from chats easily enough, but people will cause a stink if you don't "use proper channels" and the worst predators will still show up to events anyway. Most of the time garden variety bigotry doesn't become enough of an issue to do that. Usually that only becomes an issue when someone starts hounding marginalised people and/or attending far-right events. People will often confront each other over bigotry before whisper networks develop but imo gossip is a really healthy way of keeping check.

What I mean is that prioritizing reducing infighting means that people within a community aren't familiar with raising issues, which means speaking out isn't normalized. It replicates the patriarchy on a smaller scale.

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 days ago (10 children)

The main issue for leftists is that both of your two parties are full of corrupt unabashed neoliberal capitalists who are so far to the right they would make even Margaret Thatcher blush, the main difference being that one party is more openly racist and fascist than the other. That's not a purity test, it's a fundamental difference of values.

Are you really living in a democracy when only one of two parties can ever win, and both are 100% commited to neoliberal economics? Nothing is gonna get better in the long run under a system that is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. No war but class war.

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[–] Denjin@feddit.uk 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

This is the problem with leftist mobilisation on the whole and basically always has been. The right is mostly made up of single issues. Things like opposing LGBT+ rights, reproductive rights, racial integration, social welfare etc. Any one of things are your main bag and Conservative it is. All the others basically aren't deal breakers. For example, you could be closeted homosexual but also an ardent racist, you're definitely not going to vote left.

On the flip side, all the left has are deal-breakers. Leftists will constantly come up against purity tests for a myriad of different factions, interest groups, loud parts of the Internet etc etc.

As an example, you may be the scion of the left in terms of your electoral ability but if you say women's sport should be protected from those born with a potential innate advantage of a higher amount of testosterone, you're pissing off a part of your base who now would rather anyone but you got into power.

Look at how the different sides (socialists, communists, anarchists, Basque and Catalan nationalists etc), descended into infighting during the Spanish Civil War even while on the brink of victory against Franco's Nationalists. (who for example brought together the anti-Catholic and anti-monarchist Falangists and the pro-Catholic and pro-monarchist CEDA because they could all agree on wanting to destroy the Reds).

edit: added word for clarity

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Progressives want to fall in love. Conservatives fall in line.

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[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

ITT: @PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au spams every comment with left-wing infighting.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

This is my biggest problem with this place. Disagree a little and you're scum. Someone recently told me to kill myself because I said "Nazis are horrible people, but they are in fact human". This literally got me called a Nazi sympathizer. Because anything less than saying they're literal cockroaches means you support awful right wing ideas.

People can't wait to find a way to claim you believe horrible shit that you never said and is unlikely you believe. It's fucking bizarre.

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[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 days ago (7 children)

While lemmy itself isn't a target for propaganda bots, the narratives they push kinda seep in.

Propaganda doesn't seek to convert a leftist to the right, their strategy is to fragment the left - factions spend their energy arguing amongst themselves instead of presenting a cohesive opposition.

For example, elements of the left were protesting about Palestine outside Kamala's campaign events.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago

On that topic you're quite right. One PAC was funding contradictory messages about Kamala Harris' stance on Israel, targated at Jewish and Muslim populations.

There probably are a handful of propagandists here, but I start with the presumption that almost everyone engages with good faith until shown otherwise. Anyway, that's why I'm calling for nuance in my rant, which could help combat assumptions formed from propaganda.

[–] Bloefz@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (12 children)

It was indeed very bad for the democracts to support Israel so staunchly. This is the problem with the US 'left'. They're not really left, they're neoliberal. Money is all that matters to them.

You really need a real left there.

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