I'm sure the good quality pivot joints don't start at XT. I just don't have other intermediary parts to test with. I've used an SLX derailleur and shifters in the past and the shifting consistency didn't feel worse in any way. Maybe it goes down to Deore. Maybe even to CUES. The CUES parts look really well made. But so does the Alivio so unless one can inspect it with their hands, it's not clear. :D

All that makes me curious about the quality of the newer "value" brands like Microshift, S-Road, Sensah, Ltwoo. If those have stiff joints, they may be a worthy upgrade for cheap setups.

I loved Suntour components! I wish I still had some of them.

Loool I've been telling my self maybee I should up grade to a 9x or 10x. But then I go for a ride and realize. It's more fun to just shut up and ride and not be a prissy over things like fancy parts or weight reduction. Like bro. You are 200lbs on a good day and bike weighs like 40lbs what the hell is reducing half a pound actually going to do for you?.

If it works for you, there's no need to upgrade. If you ride only occasionally and mainly in flat terrain, it won't make a huge difference.

I don't have experience with the 12-speed drivetrains but the M7000/M8000 11-speed Shimano are incredible. If you have some cash burning in your pocket, you'd be delighted. That said as some have suggested, the same shifting consistency is probably available in cheaper parts too. I can vouch for M7000/M8000 as that's what I've been using since 2017. Especially coming from an old Suntour, it's gonna blow your mind. Perfect shifting under power? Yes.

That's how I found this.

Back in 2008-10 I started using 10-speed SLX and that was near flawless. Sometime around 2017 I switched to an 11-speed XT (M8000) that I found at a discount. That thing never misses a shift and in addition it can shift under load in either direction without mishifts. Never requires adjustment after a new cable settles. It's incredible. I've gotten really used to this experience.

Recently I got a foldable with M3100. I was pretty excited because the M3100 now has the shadow cage design and it looks more or less like a heavier, cheaper version of what I'm used to. I starter riding it and I got a few misshifts, adjusted the barrel, got a bit better, adjusted the deraileur hanger, got a bit better, B-screw, got better. I even got an old 9-speed XT shifter for it because the derailleur movement is primarily controlled by the shifter. Now it's closer to the consistency I'm used to but it still does some slow shifts / higher-lower shifts every few cassette sweeps. That got me thinking about what could possibly cause this and I started inspecting it physically. That's when I discovered how much play there is in the M3100. I could get the guide pulley to move half a gear from the indexed one by mildly pressing on it. I did the same test on my other bike. It barely moved even when pressing really hard. That's when it hit me that there's no way to get perfectly consistent shifting with this amount of play. It's still perfectly functional, it's not dangerous or anything, but it physically can't do it. I decided to bite the bullet and get some old M8000 gear. Once I removed the chain from the M3100 it was so much more obvious how much play there's in it compared to the M8000.

With all that said, for the price, an M3100 with a cheap trigger shifter is still very good. It just won't ever do perfect shifts and there isn't much point in changing cassettes, cables or shifters in the hope it'll improve significantly.

So THAT'S why I can never make it perfect... Thank you very much!

I've been wondering this for about 20y and just figured it was impossible.

Nope, just cheap hardware. Lol