this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2025
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Apparently a page from an internal IBM training manual. Some further attempts at source it

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[–] ruuster13@lemmy.zip 162 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And when computers make all management decisions, let us not forget that managers told them to do so, lest we forget whom to hold accountable.

[–] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 31 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You know shit only flows downhill right?

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 103 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think what they meant is nobody in management cares if someone wants to hold them accountable

Bit it's a nice picture, yeah

[–] scathliath@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I don't know, they all sure hate Luigi for some reason.

[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 6 points 4 days ago

Probably not fans of Nintendo or something

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago (2 children)

That's why board executives and business are so excited about it

[–] Saarth@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

They can finally get rid of McKinsey and blame it on cheaper and faster trendy butthole logo of the month.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Why would they get rid of McKinsey? That would make dinner at the club super awkward!

[–] undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It's not my fault

~~I was just following orders~~

~~It's just company policy~~

It's just a misstep in the algorithm

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'm sorry the computer said layoffs so... Get fucked.

[–] EightLeggedFreak@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

Ai says you're not a citizen. Deported.

[–] Salvo@aussie.zone 106 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Managers aren’t being held accountable for their management decisions either.

“Oh, I sacked our entire workforce and sold all the company assets, so the figures will look amazing this month.”

“Oh, the figures are down this month, a golden handshake!? Thank you very much.”

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Most industries management fails upward. Definitely true in Pharma.

There are CEOs with a 20 year string of development failures, but they bring "vast experience".

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 43 points 5 days ago

Executives today:

This means if we put AI somewhere in our decision making, we can no longer be held accountable.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 38 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Isn't that exactly why they do use them for management decisions?

[–] InputZero@lemmy.world 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yup!

"I'm sorry but your contact is terminated because our management software designated your position as redundant and unnecessary. It wasn't our decision to let you go, but it was our decision to begin using that software and it was our decision to program it to try to fire as many employees as possible, but it's not our decision and therefore we can't be held responsible. Goodbye."

[–] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

The same argument for cartels. "We didn't all increase our prices to the exact same amount, we just paid a consulting company to tell us which price we should use. Of course our competitors used the exact same company, but that's just a coincidence".

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 32 points 5 days ago

Since when are managers held accountable? Is this new?

[–] xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 79 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Ah, from back when people still had critical thinking faculties in good working order.

[–] raman_klogius@ani.social 49 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Back when tech is still dominated by hippies and not fascists.

[–] GrabtharsHammer@lemmy.world 55 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 5 days ago

At the time the computers were kinda newfangled and they tolerated some hippies over there in research.

The business part, well, yeah.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 5 days ago

That's not how you would describe IBM at any point in its existence.

[–] thinkercharmercoderfarmer@slrpnk.net 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

This is as good an excuse as any to break out the ol' IBM corporate songbook

Tech has always been suits at the top, hippies at best an annoying necessity because they know how to actually operate the machine.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

IBM in 1979 was the polar opposite of hippie or liberal. You're thinking of later, younger outfits, Pirates of Silicon Valley types. IBM was white shirt, black tie, solidly stuck in their ways.

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[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 21 points 4 days ago (3 children)

That's the neat thing, you can deny accountability by blaming the computer's decision

[–] InnerScientist@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

A COMPUTER CAN NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

THEREFORE A COMPUTER MUST ~~NEVER~~ MAKE ~~A~~ MANAGEMENT DECISIONs

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[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 57 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Reminds me of Woz’s old saying “Never trust a computer you can’t throw out a window.”

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 27 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That became easier with phones huh.

[–] lauha@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes, really easy to throw cloud out the window

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[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 days ago

A complete one-eighty nowadays..."As a highly paid "business" exec I have no ideas...computer, tell me what to do."

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

TBF Management can barely make any management decisions either...

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)

"No networked computers!" Colonial fleet high command standing orders

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[–] Heikki2@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago (2 children)

As a US citizen, this logic need to be applied to corperations. The C_Os make all the decisions for the company, the Campany should not be held as responsible for the shitty actions of its Board. The Board should be held accountable for the companies actions be required to served by all the C_Os. I say served, I mean fines and prison time ,in all cases, as a fine is paid personally by the person and time is served aslo bu the person.

I know fine are just a temporary for "legal fo .a price" fine should be paid to hut them so Retirement accounts are taken, future earning are taken, income from salary+bonus at time of infraction are taken, and close loops of off shore accounts

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[–] x00z@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Well, I might get disliked for this opinion, but in some cases it's perfectly fine for a computer to make a management decision. However, this should also mean that the person in charge of said computer, or the one putting the decision by the computer into actual action, should be the one that gets held responsible. There's also the thing where it should be questioned how responsible it is to even consider the management decisions of a computer in a specific field. What I'm saying is that there's no black and white answer here.

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 21 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I can only assume the very next slide said, "But having a computer make battlefield targeting decisions is A-OK!" /s

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 17 points 5 days ago

It's just a little war crimes, it's ok it's ok.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The computer can't be held accountable, but the programmer and operator can.

I could go on a whole thing about mission rules and command decisions here, but I'm sick of typing for the day.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

So when is Musk getting held accountable for making a literal US funded Nazi waifu bot

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[–] kingofras@lemmy.world 18 points 5 days ago

promptly

Very meta

[–] onnekas@sopuli.xyz 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

I generally agree.

Imagine however, that a machine objectively makes the better decisions than any person. Should we then still trust the humans decision just to have someone who is accountable?

What is the worth of having someone who is accountable anyway? Isn't accountability just an incentive for humans to not just fuck things up? It's also nice for pointing fingers if things go bad - but is there actually any value in that?

Additionally: there is always a person who either made the machine or deployed the machine. IMO the people who deploy a machine and decide that this machine will now be making decisions should be accountable for those actions.

Imagine however, that a machine objectively makes the better decisions than any person.

You can't know if a decision is good or bad without a person to evaluate it. The situation you're describing isn't possible.

the people who deploy a machine [...] should be accountable for those actions.

How is this meaningfully different from just having them make the decisions in the first place? Are they too stupid?

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Let's be honest though, most managers, maybe ~60% could be replaced by AI. If you want evidence, think of anyone who goes to meetings, and those who go to meetings all day element 90% of meetings, at minimal. Those jobs shouldn't exist. They are what people like Bezos/Musk believe should not exist.

Now, how does one get from being nothing, and never being in meetings to being someone making money... You can't, unless you know someone. AI is an "American Dream" killer

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[–] FishFace@piefed.social 9 points 5 days ago

This is sad, not humorous

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