The Agora

Have they violated any of SJW's rules ^[1]^?

Defederate!

Being "MAGA" is not associated with conservatism, it's claiming your support for a openly fascist president at war with his a part of his own people. MAGA is not a political view, it's an aggregate of hate against pretty much all minorities: immigrants, LGBTQ, muslims,...

Here I'm going to point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini's_law It takes much more energy to prove an "alternative fact" as wrong than to dump it in a post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance If you tolerate the intolerant, you enable intolerance.

Don't we have minorities on this instance? Are we really advocating for a constructive dialogue between groups of people who just want to exist and people who wish these other groups could be exterminated?

Personally I think that we deserve the respect to make our own decisions on this issue. Defederation should be reserved for situations where actual laws are broken that would jeopardize the existence of this instance or even Lemmy as a whole.

As a former mod on a larger subreddit and then a mod on a decent lemmy community, and now a sad mod trying to pick up the pieces (RIP lemm.ee), I've seen how hate can be pervasive in most every sphere. If we start locking things down because we want a hate free Internet, well... We won't have much of an Internet anymore.

My modding style was always the "let 'em cook" method. Unless doxxing, impersonation of a mod, spam, bots, and the like are happening, the community would dogpile the user, and frankly as a bystander seeing coherent arguments against hate was more convincing than just censoring it all together.

Come on, isn't maga.place a Russian information operation? It's not founded by MAGA people, but by a foreign power whose goal is to pose as MAGAts in order to expand the gap within USA's population.

Let MAGAs read and engage with reasonable content as long as possible so long as they aren't dickheads. You never know when someone will say something that makes them rethink their position.

Why should users of this instance spend their leisure time with people who not only want to take away their rights, but label themselves as such? A label that tags their user name regardless of what they're saying.

Why should we, as users of this instance, ever allow someone who visibly declares their support for hateful politics, to engage with the most vulnerable among us in the first place?

MAGA policies are killing women. I'm a woman. I see someone calling themselves MAGA and I see someone who supports stripping away my autonomy and letting me die.

Everyone can join as many instances as they want if they believe defederating from hate speech enthusiasts is creating an echo chamber.

Absolutely get rid of the fascists

I beleive we need to debate that filth and fight them everywhere. However, if I want to do that, I can always create a user somewhere else that allows me to do so and not pollute this instance. I want this instance to be a nice place that I can show to people as a good alternative to reddit and other social media platforms wihout puting them at risk of being brainwashed by fascists. In short, I support to defederate.

I'm reminded of a story about a bartender, who immediately kicked out a Nazi simply for entering the establishment. The Nazi wasn't causing any trouble. But the rational was that once you start allowing Nazis in "because they're nice", they'll start inviting their friends, who might not be so nice. Now your bar is a Nazi bar, and they become much harder to kick out because "you already let us in, why do you have a problem now?"

Nazis (and fascists in general) use the same tricks as narcissistic people, by holding you to your words because you believe in words. They don't, so they happily trample all over you once you let your guard down.

Nazism, by definition, is hateful and violent ideology. Maga is following in their footsteps. They have no place in this world.

Thanks for starting this discussion. I've linked this post in !meta@slrpnk.net.

Okay I had to think on this one a while. It seems like their community is microscopic. There really is barely anything there. The stuff that is there isn't even really offensive or objectionable just conservative. I do get what people are saying that we need to fight facism everywhere but I tend to err on the side of more speech unless I see evidence of harm coming from a community so I will vote nay but I also don't think there is going to be any loss if people to vote to ban it as there is nearly no posts on there or discussions.

I don't know her Mariah smile

But honestly, if someone has an account on that instance it's probably good for them to be able to read posts and comments on other instances. Of course once in a while that will lead to some trolling and individual users will be banned. If that's too much then the whole instance should be defederated. But I don't think it should be preemptive. I see more potential for good than harm.

Things that should be preemptive: accessibility, codes of conduct.

I haven't seen any evidence of their users consistently violating rules of other instances, I've only seen intolerant communities on their instance. That should not be grounds for defederation, we should only defederate if their instance refuses to deal with reported abuse from their users.

So I'll vote no on this. While I very much disagree politically w/ that instance, I don't think that's enough to defederate.

As a general rule, I am against defederation unless the instance is going to cause liability or technical problems (bot spamming, illegal content, etc.)

This instance in particular is closer to banning a user that is self hosting. It is closed, requires account approval, and thusly defederation will not catch any unknowing users in a dragnet.

So I think defederation is a reasonable exception for this instance, especially given the community vote in progress.

I would like the option to vote to defer to the moderators. Reason being while I think it is valid to keep their community exposed to outside, less supportive, takes on their ideology, I also understand that the community has potential to be a particularly toxic and hostile one, so I understand if our moderators (who I am very appreciative of) don't want to take on the task of keeping them in check on this community.

Also, those of you upvoting and downvoting votes are wild.

Please defed them if my vote is allowed.