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Theoretically, what would happen if an armed US citizen was confused or scared and thought he was being kidnapped. The perpetrators refused to identify, and he shot and killed them. They weren't dressed properly and were trying to put him in an unmarked, unlicensed vehicle.
honest answer: they will be shot and killed in return. in the rare case they are not killed they will be given the most lacking “proper trial” possible. even in castle doctrine states with no obligation to retreat, things like the 2nd amendment are only really (in effect) applicable on a civilian to civilian case. The state will always “extra judicially” take care to shock and awe in retaliation. cf: philly move bombing, waco, and the recent bombing of “drug runner boats” in international waters.
That is the answer, and I don't think confusion would play any part here.
If the kidnapping victim in this scenario somehow survives, they'll surely be held in custody pending trial. When it comes to legal firearm use, they would need to make the case that A) they reasonably felt in imminent danger for their lives, and B) that they acted to eliminate the threat. Even in an ideal world where a jury acquits them, they still get to live with "I killed someone".
If you're carrying, you have to have already been doing everything right before any incident where you are forced to eliminate a threat to your person. If you did anything provocative, you're fucked. After the threat is eliminated, you need to stop shooting, because if you take any harmful action after threats have been eliminated, you're fucked.
But the fact is that if you're in that situation, where you have to draw and fire, there's going to be multiple people (threats) on you. The odds that you are able to eliminate all of those threats before being killed yourself are low.
Self defense applies to other selves, as well. Not just your unique self. It extends to other people. Meaning YOU don't have to be the one in danger.
Yes this is true. It also adds an extra layer of “are you making the right decision”, so take extra care.
Beats a death camp.
Justified and legal in Indiana: https://www.purduegloballawschool.edu/blog/news/indiana-stand-your-ground-law
again: this won’t apply if you’re dead. or if the state has sufficient desire to ignore the law and case history.
That would be clear self-defense, but they would be jailed for life in El Salvador or some shit nonetheless because rule of law is crumbling in this country
Oh, no. They would be shot.
It's bound to happen eventually, so we'll find out
The van and the ppl have no record of ever existing 🤷🏻♂️
Well great, cause I suddenly can’t remember ever firing my gun, must have just lost some ammo while walking around.
That’s irresponsible. I never loaded my gun this morning. I was bringing it to the shop to try a new sight
Just shooting some vermin
Even if they aren't slaughtered on the spot, they would become a most-wanted fugitive and their normal life would be over. Kristi Noem would be proud to announce on Fox that the standing orders for the manhunt were to shoot them dead on sight. They would have to hide in the woods or some other concealed place and at least be familiar with SERE concepts if they wanted to survive another 72 hours.
That is a workable strategy. Outnumber, execute them quickly, throw the bodies in the car and torch it. Shows others the consequences of their actions, sends a message.
However, it is escalation. Next time there are more. Maybe in an APC.
Expect an escalated response.
The muppets in the Federal government are trying their hardest to make this occur so they can try and find some loophole to go ahead with their martial law plans to arrest all the people they don't like that week. What we're likely seeing is mature restraint on behalf of firearm owners.
Some years back, the quote was something like, "as soon as you discharge your weapon, you are looking at spending at least $10,000 from legal fees" (if you don't have firearm insurance and/or if it would even be applicable) - that number is probably tenfold now. Not to mention the very likely personal harm others have mentioned.
Legal fees or not, being dead is pretty hard to come back from.
If you see a van or SUV without plates please call the cops on them.
The driver answers
This article talked about how what ICE was doing was illegal, but didn't ask anyone on the police force if they'd enforce the law against them.
If you see a vehicle with no license plates & it’s doing anything even remotely unusual (speeding, driving erratically, etc) then call 911 and report it. If it’s driving erratically then tell 911 that you’re concerned the driver could be drunk etc. given the behavior you’re witnessing.
"Driving without license plates" is unusual.
in some places, but not where i live.
Where I live, in order to push back against racist cops harassing minorities with trivial traffic stops we pretty much outlawed the concept of a traffic stop. Now people drive without license plates all the time to avoid tolls and literally nothing can be done about it. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction here. Now we just have racist cops and unaccountable criminals.
....that is definitely not legal. Or you're talking about another country for some reason.
Still illegal af
Ironically that makes them easier to identify.
Easier to identify that they're ICE but still impossible to make a complaint or hold anyone accountable.
That still leaves the VIN at the drivers side dashboard
But what does that get us? This is secret police in 2025. Masked, unmarked, unidentifiable and kidnapping people to unknown and untraceable locations. Often just straight out of the country. How is this not a bigger deal
If not covered up.
~~Federal immigration officer~~
State sponsored terrorist paramilitary.
FTFY
Sporting the kidnapper look even more on point. Ask them the secret word or run
This would be interesting in the stand your ground and open carry states. Unmarked car pulls into a driveway, unidentifiable armed masked goons jump out and they run straight into a hornets nest.
"Interesting" is one way to put it. In reality anyone who practices and abides by these established doctrines to protect their freedoms will be tried for treason because they dared stand up to the undercover gestapo.
This is why they only harass blue states. ICE wouldn't dare pull this shit in Texas. So many of them would get shot simply for stepping on someone's property.
Yeah it's a fascist country, and that's not a figure of speech. What could happen, they are backed by the army, thw FBI, the president, the supreme court. Seriously american leftist friends, run while you can, it will get worse, they will come after you.
They can come and get it. This is our county too. I ain't going anywhere.
At this rate how are they are touching close to being considered like the klan for kidnapping people in the night, since there is 0 form of way of identifying who is taking people anymore. Threading the worst kinds of water right now
Close to? When are we going to stop diluting and sane washing what’s happening BEFORE OUR VERY EYES?? If this exact same thing happened in one of them colored people countries everyone would be calling this a military dictatorship.
So if you defend yourself from these savages.. how would a jury hold that up in court WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT?!?!