this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2025
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[–] ezterry@lemmy.zip 4 points 22 hours ago

I see "gold rush" the company selling shovels is making out like a bandit, everyone else is make a profit on the previous gen but requires a 10x cost increase for the next gen. And thus 10x more shovels.. As soon as 10x more shovels stops giving 10x+ improvements this is the wrong investment.

Hints are we already reached this point.

Some AI companies will pivot and improve in other ways with more linear costs/results.. The ones hoping the line continues to the moon.. I think they overshot.. I just don't know when it will fall back..

[–] xylogx@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

There is definitely a bubble. But also what Nvidia is doing is smart. They have boatloads of cash. They are investing that cash in the companies that are using their products to create money making services. If one of them can create a killer app or viable service this will create demand for their products and they will have an ownership stake in it. Is this guaranteed or even likely? Probably not. We have reached the point where we were in 1996 where the chairman of the fed came out and said we are in a period of "irrational exuberance." That bubble took four more years to pop. This one may end quicker, but it is impossible to tell when it will end or what will come out of it from where we sit today.

[–] Octavio@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago

The funny thing about people who say it’s not a bubble because AI has value is that the asset category having value doesn’t prevent valuation bubbles from forming.

Houses have value: you can live in them. Yet there was a housing bubble.

The internet has value: you can watch cat videos on it. Yet there was a dot com bubble.

Tulip bulbs have value: you can grow pretty flowers with them. Yet there was a tulip bulb bubble.

In my experience, whenever you start reading news stories asking if something is a bubble and quoting investment bankers say, “no, it’s not a bubble,” well, usually it’s a bubble.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 3 points 23 hours ago

If not for the banks investing hevily into it, i'd not be all that worried.

Every company in that list could shrink by half and we'd all be at worst back to covid times. Sure unemployment would suck, but do we REALLY need microsoft and NVidia to be as huge as they are?

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago (7 children)

Hold up everyone. It's not a bubble.

"So it is true that valuations are high but, in our view, generally not at levels that are as high as are typically seen at the height of a financial bubble," said Goldman Sachs strategist Peter Oppenheimer.

He's from GOLDMAN SACHS LOLOLOLO I THINK THEY WOULD RECOGNIZE A BUBBLE LOL ah fuck me our economy is gonna splode

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Goldman Sachs also though NINA mortgages were a good idea, and they also thought it was a good idea to bundle bad mortgages in with good mortgages, and find a rater to mark them AAA investments.

And then we saw how that worked out.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

yeah, how could this go wrong?

at least after the crash those houses could be lived in. these datacenters are made for one purpose, AI, and really would have to be completely gutted and refurbed for general purposes.... fun.

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I wonder what the people over at Bear Stearns think oh wait they gone.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

this made me chortle into my cereal ty

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[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 48 points 2 days ago (3 children)

NVIDIA really out here selling shovels in the gold Rush

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Nvidia are very smart in that regard, ethics aside. Very early on they decided that selling cards to gamers will not give them the infinite growth everyone so desperately desire, so they started looking for what does, and they were consistent at it ever since. Every tech bubble of the recent history is powered by Nvidia cards. How much they contributed to the hype (and damage) is not entirely clear, but that's not zero for sure

[–] mcv@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They lucked into it. They made their cards for gamers, and various groups, AI researchers, bitcoin miners and others, discovered that they those gamer GPUs were really good for other tasks too. I think it took a while before Nvidia started making specialised cards for those purposes.

I can't really blame them for serving that market that they just lucked into. I can and will blame them for their terrible Linux support.

[–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Oh believe me, it wasn't just luck. They have special labs full of people who's whole job is to find another unexplored niches that can buy their cards. And they only make specific single purpose cards only when the market is mature enough to justify the spending, which is also smart.

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[–] llama@lemmy.zip 51 points 2 days ago (21 children)

If Lemmy is supposed to be the place where the most tech savvy people in the interest congregate, and everyone in the comments is unsatisfied with AI then we really do have a problem. These companies have all reached a point where they no longer listen to their most informed customer base but instead take 100% of direction from investors who don't even know what they want except a line going up.

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Lemmy is not the most tech savvy people on the internet nor the customer base for AI. Where did you get either of those ideas?

[–] llama@lemmy.zip 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Because you have to be tech savvy to understand what the fediverse is or how ActivityPub works so it sets the filter for a userbase that evangelizes emerging technology.

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Yeah. Signing up for a social service doesn’t make you the most technical person in the world.

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[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

All ai companies should direct all resources to medical research. I mean we would have to do without ai slop summaries for search engines and ai slop images. Well on second thought I guess slop is worth the human cost so let's keep it as it is. I bet I get my wish.

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The housing bubble encompassed a metric ton of banks and companies that bought and sold shares of subprime mortgages in the billions of dollars and when everyone stopped paying and started defaulting, that caused a entire economic collapse.

Now unless someone can point me to an analysis where we have some tangible proof that banks and tons of companies are invested, not just using, AI, it seems to me the fall out would be limited to tech companies, which yeah would involve some job losses but nothing on the scale of the housing or dotcom bubble.

Now if you're referring to rich jackasses who are all in and banking on AI taking our jerbs? Sure that bubble will hurt them but they're not driving forces in the economy, just politics, which I guess could cause a economic crash if they get your idiot politicians more scared of them than the people with France on their minds.

[–] relianceschool@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

True, but consider that a huge amount of retail investors' portfolios are tied to the S&P 500/NASDAQ. Think retirement savings, IRAs, 401(k)s, pensions, etc. Then consider that the entire market is effectively propped up by AI right now (see: The entire stock market is being carried by these four AI stocks). If the market gets a 60% correction, it's going to be the middle class losing their shirts all over again.

[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 46 points 2 days ago (1 children)

People need housing, no one needs this AI crap. Even in boring engineering jobs using tools that solved problems decades ago, we are getting AI shoveled in left and right in places no one needs or wants it. And calling old features "AI" is also another problem.

And now these stupid "barking bears attacking fat sleeping people" videos are everywhere, and people seem to think they're real.

We should focus on natural intelligence first, that is to say each other, and education...

Oh and the headline should read "Every day", "everyday" is an adjective, like an everyday occurence.

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[–] BilSabab@lemmy.world 20 points 2 days ago (30 children)

But what will be left after it bursts? At least in cause of the housing bubble - the houses existed physically - what will be after the AI crash? Lots of spare gear sold for cheap?

[–] witx@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A bunch of brain dead junior Devs who cannot think for themselves

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[–] commander@lemmy.world 26 points 2 days ago (4 children)

The s&p 500 tanks a ton and banks call on loans from these AI hyped companies using the price of the stocks as collateral (previously expected to rise). Credit crunch and now companies tighten the belts even further so higher unemployment again. Federal funds rate gets slashed and those that can manage steady good work during the recovery years will be fine. Everyone else will be struggle busing as usual

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[–] rafoix@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

But what will be left after it bursts?

Affordable GPUs? Less pushy AI commercials?

The wealthy will just move on to the next thing to inflate. Capitalists don't work. They don't care about anything other than ROI.

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[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Unpopular opinion but this will not as bad as housing bubble and we're way past bubbles actually popping in contemporary economy. Even China corrected for its massive ghost city housing bubble just recently and that was actually worse than ai tech overvaluation.

[–] Part4 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

This turned out a little bit long. I wonder if anyone will bother reading it.

A lot of this so-called 'bubble' is based on capital expenditure in support of a technology that probably doesn't have the capability AI company ceo's claim, but does have fascinating, and in terms of how society is currently arranged possibly extremely harmful, potential.

I know what ai companies have done, and what they are likely to do, in the pursuit of profit is shit; I would say that is a capitalism and fascist billionaire issue, rather than a tech issue but ymmv.

And there is the energy consumption problem. I think ai ceo's and tech broligarchs would privately say 'compare the energy consumed by my datacentre to the energy consumed by the workers it has replaced and you will see it is fairly efficient.......' (I am saying what I expect they think, not what I agree with).

The concern that the economy currently has all of its eggs in the ai basket seems reasonable, but I see why capital is betting on it as big as it is. Any concerns regarding the economic disruption of an ai bubble popping is nothing compared to what could happen if 50%+ white collar workers are made redundant. We saw the number of essential workers needed per 1 million people during covid: it wasn't many. Most jobs exist because the people exist to do them, corralled into the pyramidal structure of capitalism, where money trickles upwards. AI might push us into an era where the people exist but the jobs do not.

Anyway, I see this 'bubble' as being like the dotcom bubble, which didn't kill the web when it popped. The gpu's this capital expenditure has paid for are going to continue to be used, even as this economic period shakes itself out. They aren't just going to evaporate. It isn't like worthless debt being packaged up and resold without a chance of it being recouped, even if the prospect of what can be achieved with AI is currently over-valued.

Comparing to the dotcom bubble is what finally made it make sense in my brain. Though I know the toll it took on that sector's workers and I don't envy those in fields that are going to be affected the same way.

[–] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Can you explain how we're beyond bubbles like I'm 5? Is it that there are gentler market corrections now?

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Yes, contemporary economy and free markets are so imaginary now that cascading effects and bubble pops like 2008 are very unlikely. American stock market in particular is so far off reality (even before AI boom) that it's basically a video game with no actual relevancy to true gross product. While China/Russia is a dictatorship with no representation of reality at all and can easily hide the burden of bad economic policies in the obedient peasant class.

So we have dictatorship with imaginary worlds vs "free markets" living in their own imaginary simulation. Economy is all made up now and cascades are basically impossible because that requires rationality.

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago

The problem isn't the imaginary market, which I agree with the description. Its the leveraging of debt, to gamble in the market, which is what low interest rates enable.

And yes, our interest rates are VERY low still. I'm looking at some ARM packages right now, and their max lifetime interest rates are on par with what a typical mortgage was about a decade ago.

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[–] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've been saying the same thing.

The 2008 housing bubble was predicated on cheap lending. It was all debt. It was massive amounts of toxic debt sold around Wall Street, like using Trump Coin or counterfeit cash used to buy a house.

The vast majority of what's happening here is not debt. Sure, some, but very little. Even the OpenAI AMD stock swap thing is swapping a gamble on stocks worth real money, not debt.

IMO the first sub-bubble to pop will be all the time and effort wasted on "Startups" that are nothing more than a couple people acting as a wrapper for an AI agent. That's not really going to impact the economy too much on its face, but suddenly a lot of people are going to go from being "entrepreneurs" to being truly unemployed.

Edit: Also, just saw this gem, and THIS is how you get a supercharged 2008 repeat, bank deregulation and $2.6 trillion in lending. Which is exactly how we got to 2008's subprime lending.

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The vast majority of what’s happening here is not debt.

Most of what is going on in the AI sector is most certainly debt leveraged. Like, I'm looking at the books for several companies deep into AI.

I mean, how much profit is OpenAI turning right now?

[–] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

I’m looking at the books for several companies

Well with all that proprietary information, please do enlighten us with specifics. Who has loans, and how much? From which banks?

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 183 points 2 days ago (8 children)

It's objectively a bad thing when a country's entire economy is being propped up by seven companies and the vast majority of consumer spending is concentrated in the top 1%.

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