this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2025
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"Fuck Nazis" - the all-uniting cry (infosec.pub)
submitted 10 hours ago by PugJesus@piefed.social to c/historymemes@piefed.social
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[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Sarah Paine (prof at the us navy war college) made a great point in a video I saw a while back.

WW2 starts. The UK and US are already building prototype four engine bombers, what it takes to attack deep into the continent.

Japan, Germany? Nothing even on the drawing board, much less in prototype production.

Japan and Germany picked a fight with an industrial powerhouse, protected by two oceans, without the means to attack even the coasts of that country in any meaningful way. Literally, even if the entire imperial japanese navy went right for the west coast, they would have lost, and that's saying their logistics could stretch that far (they couldn't, literally didn't have the oil/gas).

The germans were even worse off. And even if you could slap the coasts, lol, what the fuck good is that going to do? There's THOUSANDS OF MILES of factories rail and resource extraction happening inside the US. It's the largest producer of refined petroleum at the time.

Japan and Germany never had a farts chance of striking detroit, pittsburgh, toledo, fort worth, hundreds of cities with thousands of factories and mines etc.,

WHAT KIND OF FUCKING MORON DRAWS AN ENEMY LIKE THAT INTO THE FRAY? How fucking dumb do you have to be lol?

[–] NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Japan was agitated into the war by the USA oil embargo that definitely wasn't a way by the "peace loving and isolationist" USA to force Japan into attacking first

FDRs top planners already knew Japan was planning to attack and clearly wanted a war with Japan, they just knew they couldnt sell this to an isolationist public unless Japan attacked first

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

neither of these explains how either germany nor japan thought it could win. choosing to start a military conflict when you have neither the production nor resources to win it is simply stupid.

yeah, the oil embargo was real, just like japan's manchurian ambitions (which was what precipitated the embargo).

[–] NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

Again, Japan was backed into a corner with the embargo. They thought that Pearl Harbor wouldn't start a war. So the answer to your question (at least with Japan), is that "they didn't".

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 19 minutes ago (1 children)

Japan was backed into a corner with the embargo

backed into a corner?

The embargo could have stopped as soon as their imperial ambitions on manchuria ended.

ah, they wanted to steal a chunk of china/korea, AND keep that cheap american crude flowing?

see you don't get things both ways sparky. They weren't baked into a corner any more than the US was backed into a corner by opec in the 70s - because being backed into a corner MEANS something. It's called death ground. This is a real thing, if you were anything but a random schmuck on the internet claiming not to be a cia plant, you might have studied it at the state dept or army war college.

being backed into a corner means you have no other choice; being on death ground - your only option remaining is to fight until the last.

japan was not backed into a corner, any more than it was on death ground - but they'd find out what both those terms meant in 5 short years. think of it, 5 short years to turn the entire production of this continent onto two TEENY TINY targets - japan and germany.

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

They thought that Pearl Harbor wouldn't start a war.

What did they think they were going to accomplish, then?

[–] NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

That it would force USA to negotiations about the oil embargo

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 hours ago

If true, that was incredibly dumb of them

[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 12 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

An imperialist, an imperialist, and an imperialist put down their differences to fight a nationalist-imperialist?

[–] guy@piefed.social 4 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Isn't that just how history always has been?

[–] NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

No, not really. Previous large scale wars were civil wars, or, wars of imperialism to carve up other countries for the imperialist powers.

There is some exceptions, but WW1/WW2 is really the first major war between imperialist powers "inter-imperialist war". WW1 and WW2 are human atrocities that are not comparable to any other war.

[–] NotSteve_@piefed.ca 40 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

The US was happy enough with the Nazis until Japan forced them to take a side

[–] zloubida@sh.itjust.works 42 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

And the USSR was very happy with the Nazis until Germany attacked them.

[–] NotSteve_@piefed.ca 12 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

True, I just hate that the US acts as though they played the biggest part in the war when countries like Canada were there from the start

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 10 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The US was playing the isolationist card until we got brought into the mess personally, but isn't that usually how things are? Didn't Canada go early on because they were part of the Empire still? The US was still needed even if it was late to the party, Churchill himself hinted in his Fight on the Beaches speech about "until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

[–] NotSteve_@piefed.ca 4 points 7 hours ago

Didn't Canada go early on because they were part of the Empire still?

That was a true for the first world war but Canada entered the second world war as an independent nation.

And yeah, like the US helped a lot but that's mostly because they walked in at the end with a fresh army after everyone else had years of fighting. It's very American exceptionalist to narrow the "victors" of WW2 down to the UK, the USA and the Soviet Union.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 10 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

The US was supplying the UK and France from the very start of the war, ending a near-decade long embargo on munitions export, and Lend-Lease began before Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

You couldn't have said it better. I am getting tired of memes of US being happy enough to profit from either side until they got dragged into WWII by Japan. Even though that is true (private companies with operations on both sides of the Atlantic are the ones who profited more), the US have helped China and the Allies more through lend lease and embargo as you mentioned. It is also important to remember that US ships and German u-boats were already skirmishing for well over a year before WWII, because US ships were supplying UK after France fell.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 2 points 4 hours ago

The communists would have fought alongside you if you only laid off the Pervitin long enough to not decide to ratfuck them for the lulz

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 11 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Sadly there are elements in all 3 that also wanted to co-operate with the Nazis. Luckily they weren’t able to be influential enough.

We must always remain vigilant.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 7 points 9 hours ago

Indeed. The US had its German-American Bund and Silvershirts who were admittedly marginal, but a large minority of the population who would've been happy to simply sell Germany materiel - or starve the Allies of the same.

A person's voice is a powerful tool - and stopping the worst from occurring can buy enough time for deeper developments to take root.

[–] Zombie@feddit.uk 11 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

"Democracy"

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 20 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

All things are relative, and the standards were... low around WW2.

Consider it the ignominious position of 'victory by default'

[–] daskye@fedia.io 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Doesn't make it a democracy

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 10 points 9 hours ago

All things are relative

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 7 points 9 hours ago

“Communist”

[–] Lucky_777@lemmy.world 9 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Capitalist Dictatorship (2025 America)

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

Communish.