this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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Fuck Cars

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A new housing development outside Phoenix is looking towards European cities for inspiration and shutting out the cars. So far residents love it - The Guardian

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[–] Sensitivezombie@lemmy.zip 43 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I would love to see more and more car free cities and other urban sprawling, but I have to say, this centralized business model where this developer is providing all the amenities, passes for the near by rail, paying rent to this developer, basically everything goes through them, they even had an app for the community, this is not a viable solution. What happens when this company is not able to sustain the spending or goes bankrupt, or worse sells majority share to an equity company. A decentralized model that goes through local government is a better option and not through for profit company. Even better option is to start from city center not a separate community on the edge of the city. I know what I'm saying sounds impossible in America, and with lobbying buy auto makers and other large corporate overlords, it probably is impossible. Social change can bring about the difference.

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Homer gets a promotion

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 29 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Why aren’t we building neighborhoods like this in every city in the country?

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

where.. where..

where... fuck! Phoenix

[–] floppade@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

Technically Tempe, one of the most bicyclist friendly areas of the country.

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Seen today's hypothetical senate poll?

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In a 3 way race for Senate, the Dem candidate beat GOP and Sinema

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

oh I just meant I didn't want to live in the hottest city in North America, regardless of their politics

[–] Orbit79@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Great idea, but they are taking it too far. People should be allowed to have a car, but it should be parked at the edge of the neighborhood and only be allowed to come in for loading and unloading of heavy things.

That way you have all the benefits and almost no inconvenience at all. We have that in many places in Denmark and it works great.

[–] davetapley@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

People should be allowed to have a car, but it should be parked at the edge of the neighborhood and only be allowed to come in for loading and unloading of heavy things

That's exactly what this development is?

[–] spudwart@spudwart.com 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

There's nothing more American than taking ideas to their extreme end.

But, it's also not surprising to see this behavior given that it's a response to the other extreme of cars in every space, in every location.

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I would take it one step further and say there should probably be small (single lane) roads that run through the neighborhood or an underground carpark with a few freight elevators that run directly into the buildings. Why? For a same reason you mentioned that they should allow cars. If you get a new fridge, imagine trying to walk that sucker from the street to your apartment. You probably wouldn't need very many freight elevators or access roads to significantly decrease the amount of effort required to get bulky and/or heavy objects to your apartment while still maintaining the general feel and spirit of a car-less community.

[–] chocoladisco@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You really don't need new fridges that often, the couple times you do just put them on boards on casters and shove. If you can't: ask your neighbors, it's a good bonding experience.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip -2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

What about garbage disposal.

You going to pull that around on casters as well?

[–] drkt@feddit.dk 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Gee I wonder how the pedestrian-only streets in Denmark are doing it? I guess they aren't and are full of trash.

Stop conflating private car owner-ship with municipal service vehicles.

[–] PainInTheAES@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

To be fair a pedestrian only street in a town with cars is very different from a street-less town.

[–] drkt@feddit.dk 4 points 2 years ago

It's not just one street, though. It's a series of connected streets. They're actually quite comparable to superblocks in Aarhus, Copenhagen and Aalborg.

[–] EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I guess they aren't and are full of trash.

I mean... it is full of pesky Danish people tho (/s)

[–] chocoladisco@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago

Have you never seen waste containers on wheels?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Great to see, except Phoenix is not going to be livable fairly soon due to climate change. This project needs to be done in the Midwest.

[–] fireweed@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Where in the Midwest? Much of the Mississippi River region is predicted to have some really nasty wet bulb temps. But areas around the Great Lakes (maybe not Chicago) sound like a safe bet. But yeah, when I first heard of this project I was shocked they put it in Tempe of all places.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I’m not sure there’s much evidence to support this claim. It certainly will be extremely hot but probably not more than some of the hottest cities on earth today. For example, the average temperature in Kuwait City is 10 degrees hotter than Phoenix in July, and people have found a way to live there. People will likely adapt, though it definitely will have an impact on walkability during those hot months.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's not the heat, it's the lack of water.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Maybe but the amount of water needed to sustain human life is quite low. If water is prioritized for human use over agriculture and non-functional landscaping there should be enough. Right now much of it goes to non-essential things.

[–] DarthBueller@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

People in Phoenix treat their grass like they treat their guns, you can take their grass from their cold dead hands. There's no reason there should be year-round mosquitoes in a desert city.

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

At least it's not Kuwait. 🤓 Development in Arizona, I think, isn't happening to meet a demand but rather being funded by eccentric people and being met with a government with less taxes and regulations.

[–] Hello_there@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago

Interested in going there to look at it. But I have no reason to go to Phoenix.

[–] blazera@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago

Yeah, thats why theyre so expensive, lots of people want it and very few places offer it.

[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

This sounds quite a bit like what it was like when I lived in New York City- I didn't need a car to live (* couldn't afford to park it), everything I needed was available either by walking or transit (or riding my bike).

With that said, I am suspicious of venture-capital-funded re-inventions of this model- who gets to say what amenities and concessions are available, and who profits from fulfilling the kinds of needs a neighborhood like that has?

NYC has a lot of built-in history (and with it, institutions developed from the lessons learned, like rent control to protect renters and such) and if those kinds of protections aren't included in this model, I would be willing to bet there will be abuses and problems. Building a simulacrum of an established model but where you own all the governing institutions seems... a bit of a red flag, no matter how well-intentioned it might be.

[–] Haywire@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago

I would live there if I could afford it.

[–] floppade@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

I think it's cool in theory, but the area is having a housing accessibility crisis, and it seems to be part of that problem and uses this format to hide that.

[–] Damaskox@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

(I live in Finland) I was told that in America you cannot travel much by walking because 1) since it was built for cars, stuff is far away from stuff 2) police might stop and question you, give a lift, send home or even arrest you for walking