this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2025
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No test measures intelligence. A test only measures you relative to the persons that wrote the test. – loosely quoting Asimov.

2007 is ancient history now. It is an interesting graph that one might correlate with a lack of meritocratic structure in society, but I'm on the low end cause I say this without looking up and reading the study. Pretty pictures evoke emotional blabbering bias and all that.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

wealthy families, buy thier children nice private schools, private tutors, Nepotism, and other resources unavailable to othters, also gives them a sense of entitlement, thats why alot of these expensive college produce elitist graduates.

[–] Quexotic 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Great now to one that shows hard work against prosperity ... Or just change the names on the axes it'll be easier

[–] Imhotep@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Making 180k with that 70 IQ brain

Sports maybe?
no wait
influencer

Edit: Nah, no influencers in 2007, a blissful time

[–] j4k3@piefed.world 13 points 3 days ago

Oil rig divers

[–] Naz@sh.itjust.works 87 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Looks like there's some other Factor X (in orange) not accounted for in the data.

Y'know, like, rich parents, stable household, access to resources, and opportunities, etc

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 69 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Reminds me of the marshmallow test:

But the marshmallow test is a tricky one. Replication studies reveal impor­tant details that are missing from Mischel’s triumphant analysis. On average, the kids who “fail” and eat the marshmallow rather than waiting and doubling their haul were poorer, while the “patient” kids were from wealthier back­grounds. When the “impatient” kids were asked about the thought process that led to their decision to eat the marshmallow rather than holding out for two, they revealed a great deal of future-looking thought.

The adults in these kids’ lives had broken their promises many times: Their parents would promise material comforts, from toys to treats, that they were ultimately unable to provide due to economic hardship. Teachers and other authority figures would routinely lie to these kids, out of some mix of overly optimistic projection about the resources they’d be given to help the kids in their care, or the knowledge that the kids’ poor, time-strapped, frantic parents wouldn’t be able to retaliate against them for lying.

So the kids had carefully observed the world they operated in and con­cluded, on balance of probability, that eating the marshmallow was the safe bet. At the very least, it foreclosed on the possibility that the adults running the experiment would come back in 15 minutes and declare that, due to circumstances beyond their control, they were taking back the original marshmallow, rather than providing two of them. They were thinking about the future, in other words.

These kids didn’t grow up to do worse in school and life because they lacked self-control: Those outcomes were dictated by America’s two-tier education system, which funds schools based on local property taxes, topped up by parental donations, which means that poor neighborhoods get poor schools. If these kids’ brains show up differently on a scan 20 years later, Occam’s Razor dictates that this is caused by a life of desperation and precarity, whose stresses are compounded by inadequate health-care.

https://locusmag.com/feature/cory-doctorow-marshmallow-longtermism/

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 10 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Replication studies reveal impor­tant details

Doesn't provide a source

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 7 points 3 days ago (2 children)

He usually has a companion piece on his blog for anything that goes into Locus. There, he linked to the wiki page about the marshmallow test, which has a section on follow-up studies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment#Follow-up_studies

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Very interesting. I imagine an even simpler explanation for why poorer kids do less well in school:

You simply can't focus on abstract thoughts if you're lacking basic ingredients in your life.

It's something like the pyramid of needs:

When you're hungry in school because you didn't have proper breakfast because your parents had too little time to prepare one or were unable to actually buy proper-quality ingredients, your brain simply can't focus on geography of the other end of the world or god forbid, calculus.

I guess that if schoolkids were given free meals before school and during midday break, their performance in school-related activity would improve by at least 50% in poorer regions.

[–] Derpenheim@lemmy.zip 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I genuinely thought that was the point of this graph. The logarithmic function in blue very clearly shows there is a limit as to what IQ alone will net you.

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 49 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Being rich is pretty fucking obviously mostly about being born to rich parents.

[–] ignotum@lemmy.world 30 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I thought poor people were poor because they spend all their money on avocado toast, while rich people eat bootstraps or something like that

[–] baguettefish@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 3 days ago

i think the rich have seen the avocado toast problem for a long time. that's why they sell you avocado toast, because clearly it's making you poor and they have too much of it.

[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago

Being smart too.

If your parents are rich you would have gone to the better funded schools with better teachers and better clubs/programs and focus on those with your stress-free lifestyle to grow up smarter.

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 20 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You will make a little more or a little less than your parents did. That is the biggest determination on your income level.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

or a lot less that's fun too

[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 40 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I've said for a long time that intelligence isn't the number one trait for becoming filthy rich. It's lack of a moral compass.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

i think the lack of moral compass is just an enabler, what actually causes someone to amass such obscene wealth is wanting that much money. An even remotely normal person outright has no actual desire for it, they'd reach a level of wealth that will comfortably support the lifestyle they desire and just live off of that.

These turborich shits have some reason to desire the obscene wealth, either they simply have no actual end to the luxuries they desire or they feel that wealth is straight up equal to value as a person, or somesuch.

Just imagine having a billion dollars, a thousand million dollars. Why the fuck would you keep putting in any sort of work to get more money? Investing a tenth of it would give you a constant income that most people can't even dream of. Any person with a billion dollars should never even think about the concept of money again, they can buy anything they want save most countries and never ever ever ever have to worry about affording it.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Ya got a source though? Like everyone knows sociopaths are great at CEO and other executive roles, but what does the same plot look like for ethics

[–] Professorozone@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (13 children)

Nope. But if I believe it it's true. That how it works now right?

Seriously, no chart but there seem to be plenty of examples and few exceptions. There are something like 2700 billionaires in the world. I certainly am not familiar with all of them.

But also I have seen opportunities to improve my financial standing in ways that are not ethical. I did not take them. I assume others do.

So in conclusion, it's just observation. Do you disagree with the assessment or are you looking for proof?

Also in my defense, I said it was something I said, not something I could prove.

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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Pretty well backs up the a statement I've been making for years. You don't have to be smart to be rich. You just have to lack decency.

[–] rockstarmode@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Rich people aren't even in the graphic, they're way off the top of the scale. The top of this graph doesn't even get you into the top 5% in my state.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 days ago

Being smart might help you get a better job, but jobs aren't a great way to become rich anyway.

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago
[–] MakingWork@lemmy.ca 33 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'd like to see the same chart done but with EQ (emotional intelligence).

[–] Windex007@lemmy.world 34 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I'd also like to see the chart if it was actually representative of the rich. Populate the chart with individuals reporting >2.5 million in income per year.

[–] whosepoopisonmybuttocks@sh.itjust.works 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This is more like a chart of, "does being smart help you stay above the poverty line?"

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[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yep. No such thing as an IQ, so there’s no way to test for it. I mean, I could test for intelligence on whether or not someone is a socialist, but then people would immediately start objecting—which proves my point haha.

[–] CaptnNMorgan@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So IQ tests are based on political ideology?

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What? No, I was making a point about arbitrary measures of intelligence.

[–] CaptnNMorgan@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Isn't IQ based on problem solving or something? Is it really as arbitrary as political ideals? I've heard it's racist, and I'm totally willing to accept that, but I currently have no clue how that would be possible.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

The original IQ test is most certainly bunk (what wasn't back then?), but modern tests (at least the one i took, which i think was WAIS-IV) seem fine so long as you don't start reading a bunch of other extrapolations into them.

Nowadays it's not just a single number, because "intelligence" isn't a single thing. For example my total score is like 120, but i have dogshit working memory (80 i think?), so that quickly summarizes that i'm good at things like pattern recognition and understanding language, and i'm fast at it, but i clearly need help with remembering new things.

I'm sure it's far from perfect still, but i feel like a lot of the complaints people have about IQ tests is because the name is bad. It shouldn't be called "intelligence quota", but rather something like "cognitive performance index" so people don't treat it as something grander than it is.

It's the brain equivalent of measuring how much you can lift and squat, how fast you can run 100m, how fast you can run a marathon, and how high you can jump, comparing that against how everyone else performs, and then averaging out the scores and acting like it's an accurate measurement of how healthy you are.. If you just actually look at the individual scores it's obviously a reasonably useful measurement, but at the same time it obviously doesn't have anything to do with your value as a person.

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Intelligence is not something that can be quantified in any way whatsoever, and I would consider any IQ test to be fully arbitrary—so the answer is yes. I’m sure there’s some problem solving component.

If you ever want evidence of IQ being bullshit, I have a super genius IQ. It’s like 666 standard deviations above the mean. Talk to anyone who has ever talked to me and they will very quickly disagree! 😂

[–] CaptnNMorgan@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Mind explaining the 666 standard deviations above the mean? I just did a quick google search, and the AI says that's impossible, but if one standard deviation is 15 points and the mean is 100(which is my new understanding)..... Are you saying your IQ is OVER 9,000?!?!?! 10,090, I think. That's hilarious

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

I think they said my IQ was 144?

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

Yes, sorry, I was just making a stupid joke!

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Just imagining a world where there's no antidemocratic inheritance and all income is between 20-230k per year

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

imagining a world where income is measured in handmade gifts of gratitude per year

a doctor brags about saving the lives of 5 people this year and getting a bouquet of flowers from each, then does the sad squidward face as a preschool worker pours 30 friendship bracelets from their bag, saying "this is what the kids forced onto me TODAY"

[–] PillowD@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

one half of the rich are rich because they were born rich

[–] mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (8 children)

I mean, while it's true that IQ tests aren't a great measure of intelligence, it's not like all humans are equally intelligent. We all know some people who are clearly smart and some people who are clearly dumb. And I think it's completely expected that being smarter gives you some advantage at getting money. I don't think anyone can reasonably deny that being smart is generally advantageous in life. This chart seems perfectly fair and reasonable to me...there is a slight correlation, moreso on the low end (how can severely mentally retarded people do most jobs or even have incomes?), and less so on the high end. It makes a mistake in talking about income rather than net worth, which is really the more pertinent thing in "being rich". I bet we would see a much lower correlation there, because you can be born into having a high net worth. But the correlation isn't too high, because, as everyone reasonable already suspected, being rich is almost entirely about being lucky. I don't think this chart really has any import to the many social discussions about meritocracy or wealth or intelligence, except for maybe to disprove someone who believes that we live in a fair world where "if you're smart and work hard you can make it". But even then, that would rely on a misunderstanding of what the chart tells us.

Basically, I'm not sure what you're getting at with this.

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[–] othermark@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago

In my experience, type A personality has more to do with being able to earn a lot vs anything else. The cake is a lie.

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