this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2025
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I don't mean only the US but in much of the world: in many European countries the populist far right is unseating Christian-Democratic parties (conservative parties), like in Hungary, Slovakia or Czechia. In others like Germany or France the far right is at the gates of power, in the UK, Reform UK is running high in the polls. In Turkey autocratic Erdogan is copying the Putin playbook to systematically dismantle the social-democratic opposition. In Japan, a neo Thatcherite that doesn't hide she honors Japanese war criminals is about to become the new PM.

Something common I see in all these parties is strong disaffection with the current state of their countries and a longing to an idealized past they promise to bring back, to make countries great again...

Except that societies have changed beyond recognition in the last 40 years, emerging China, India, Mexico and a myriad of south east Asian countries can produce cheaper than us in the developed countries, so called first world democracies are now much older and indebted than 40 years ago (no wonder societies have shifted so hard to the right), buying a house is now waaaay more expensive than 40 years ago, you cannot earn a livable wage just assembling toasters like 40 years ago, you just cannot roll automation and digitization back, no matter how much you complain...

The past cannot come back, neither will it come back just because some people want it to. It's completely futile, but people are not rational about this, they're completely emotional and tribal.

It's like a huge, collective effort in denial: denying that we in the developed world are older, not the first ones in the world anymore, that other countries we always considered inferior to us are even surpassing us technologically while we complain and hope for a savior that brings us 40 years back when we, the white guys, ruled all over.

I don't see it happening: being angry and voting the far right may make some people feel good, it may make them feel they're somehow taking their country back, but it's not going to stop China, India and other countries from developing, investing in new technologies and even creating trade alliances that bypass the US or the EU.

My question: was there a moment in history where societies were so shifted to the right like today? How long did it last?

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[–] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 21 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Indeed. It happened in Germany in the 30s. It lasted until the country was utterly destroyed and tens of millions of people were killed.

[–] hayvan@feddit.nl 5 points 5 days ago

It wasn't only in Germany. It first started in Italy as Fascism, and became popular all over the place. As with many Italian inventions, Germans "improved" it and made Nazizm. But they also inspired a lot of similar racist movements, especially around Europe. Captain America was published in 1938 specifically because some comic artists worried Hitler was becoming too popular in USA.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I think last time this happened a bunch of anti media consolidation laws were passed to prevent rich people from owning everything (unfortunately they were repealed in the 90s in the US) Also taxes, wars. Basically rich people will fund wars to ensure people don't take their money but in doing so they destroy their money because wars kill workers, destroy products and produce nothing of value.

Its easier just to tax rich people and break up the large conglomorates they're using to rig everything. Tech companies would need to be included here. Idk why there isn't a massive tax on all kinds of bad corporate behaviors that lead here: buying companies, mergers, stock buybacks and corporate real estate shenanigans should all have serious taxes associated with them.

[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

We don't tax those things because we don't have true representation. Our "representatives" do not work for the people, they work for the rich. Senators, Congressman, SC, and the president should all be put in jail if they are convicted of taking bribes. Unfortunately, we have two separate sets of laws in this country, one for the rich, and one for the poor.

[–] dirigibles@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago (2 children)

You gotta stop thinking of it as a left/right thing. It doesn't exist. It's clouding your perspective. Populists vs establishment might be a better way to categorize if you needed just two groups, but that's still too simplistic.

The world is a messy place with lots of different groups trying to get power, enrich themselves, and push their ideology. Whatever ideology a group is pushing has little to do with having the moral high ground and will typically result in their own benefit.

Whatever ideology a group is pushing has little to do with having the moral high ground and will typically result in their own benefit.

what little you can do to improve the quality of politics is to educate the people so they can analyze and decide whether the policies are meaningful for common good or not.

[–] sleen@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

There is a good video that explains this kind of phenomenon. First it starts with a political 1D left-right line then ends with a political tesseract.

Important thing is, it is better off to treat it as a spectrum rather than a graph. Because, as implied - complexity.

treat it as a spectrum

a spectrum is typically 1-dimensional as well, though; at least the spectrums i think of

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

In ww2 Europe 65-75 people had to die before the pendulum swung back. The far right always is responsible for millions of deaths when in control. I think the best prevention would be identifying people with narcissistic and psychopathic personalities and not let them become leaders. We currently reward them in our system

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In ww2 Europe 65-75 people had to die before the pendulum swung back.

🧐

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

They probably meant "65-75 million," but hey, even the typo is correct as long as you're talking about a very specific 65-75 people.

[–] Dicska@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Oh, I was thinking they meant 65-75 people before the pendulum (the second counter on the grandfather clock?) swung back, so 65-75 people per second. I didn't think so deeply about the maths behind it, just accepted it as a possible meaning. But I'll do it now.

UPDATE: Checks out for 2-3 years, but something is telling me there was enough time for even more years to fit between 1939 and 1945.

UPDATE: Unless you consider "swung back" as 2 seconds, because then it's even possible.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Colloquially, "the pendulum" here is probably public political sentiment. It's commonly understood, whether true or not, that a population swings back and forth between progressive and conservative values; illustrated by a pendulum swinging from left (progressive) to right (conservative). In the US, this is further inflamed by the two-party system, which unintentionally encourages such polarization and swings in political will.

So, in the US for instance, the Gilded Age (far right) gave way to the Progressive Era (far left), which led to the Roaring Twenties and the Great Depression (right), which led to the New Deal (left), which eventually led to Reaganomics (right), which led to Obama (slight left), which led to Trump (super far right).

The original question was asking, how long until this pendulum swings back to the left again. The "65-75" answer, it seems, was talking about WW2 in Europe, when the pendulum swung to the right as Hitler took power, and didn't swing back to the left until after 65-75 (million) people died.

[–] Dicska@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Oh, yes you're right - I'm not a native speaker and I think we phrase it slightly differently, and I took that literally. Thanks for the explanation!

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Happy to help!

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

There's nothing quite like today. There's things that are similar, but social media has really made things worse.

Populism is rising because things haven't been great for a lot of people for a long time, and it's too hard to ignore anymore. Globalism and free trade were massively oversold to the masses, it hurt wide swaths of people that have been ignored for decades. People that feel disenfranchised will vote for change regardless of the change proposed.

Social media has escalated everything as well. The echo chambers are enormous and essentially impossible to avoid. Many traditional institutions are also extremely weak now that would have forced more interaction between people with differing views and limited extremism. Social media also does a great job in conflating the size of various groups and beliefs, a few dozen people can make a community seem as large and impactful as a few thousand .

People that feel disenfranchised will vote for change regardless of the change proposed.

hahah yeah unfortunately that's accurate :D

[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Not exactly. I am old enough to remember wondering why gay couples couldn't get legal marriage, and when interracial couples were stared at, and the ozone layer had a hole, and the Satanic Panic, but it felt like we were in a shitty spot but moving in the right direction just painfully slowly. Lots more violence than now.

[–] SL3wvmnas@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 days ago

Yeah, my working theory is violent narcissists have a much harder time beeing casually violent, so they go ever more totalitarian, because then they can be violent without repercussions again...

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Something common I see in all these parties is strong disaffection with the current state of their countries and a longing to an idealized past they promise to bring back, to make countries great again…

The past cannot come back, neither will it come back just because some people want it to. It’s completely futile, but people are not rational about this, they’re completely emotional and tribal.

Yes, societies are going through the five stages of grief:

  • denial (there are no problems, and if there are, they're the 's fault)
  • anger (vote for a strongman) <-- you are here
  • bargaining (maybe we can partially go back to the better past)
  • depression (this sucks, nothing can be done about it)
  • acceptance (well, let's look forward and make the best out of it)
[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 4 days ago

So at most we are talking a bit over 200 years that might be relevant to this. Just fyi if this is unique its not been a possibility for very long history wise.

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