this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2025
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almost definitely a repost but eh

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[–] Live_your_lives@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

This is besides the point, but in what way is a "lukewarm Christian' someone who actually makes progress? I've only ever heard the term be used in the opposite way.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I consider myself libertarian, but unlike others, I think my political ideal would be terrible to implement overnight. I see libertarianism more as a direction than an end goal, and we should evaluate how far down that path we want to go.

I'm also Christian and don't believe in Rapture. Instead, I think that if Christ's second coming is literal (don't want to get into a theological debate), any changes will be a process. People won't evaporate or whatever, instead they'll be spared in some form from the wider unrest that will end up destroying the "sinners" or whatever. Things just don't happen all at once like that.

I guess for my personal ideal, the closest would be everyone all of a sudden deciding that their rights are important and worth fighting for?

[–] Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Those are very reasonable positions to hold.

Out of curiosity, since there aren't really any libertarians where I live, what makes you think that it's the best solution, and how do you intend to solve the two problems I percieve to be the big ones: Who else can properly manage public services and how do you prevent corporations eroding rule of law?

what makes you think that it’s the best solution

I believe the ends do not justify the means. The primary goal should be maximizing liberty, with some concessions for practicality.

For example, I believe in UBI, but not because it's a human right, but because you can't realistically come back from mistakes or harm from others if there's no safety net. The options for a safety net are government services (healthcare, food assistance, housing assistance, etc) or cash handouts (UBI or NIT). Government services come with inequity in access (whether you're approved can be up to discretion), whereas cash is simple and equitable. Outcomes may be worse with cash for some people (maybe they'll buy drugs or gamble), but that's because people are free to choose how they use it, and freedom is the ideal here. Ideally we don't need a social safety net, but because we do, it should be as simple as possible.

I happen to believe that freedom tends to create opportunity and improves outcomes, but that's not the primary goal.

Who else can properly manage public services?

I absolutely believe government should exist and will have a role to play in this. The goal should be minimal government involvement where competition can exist. Some things cannot be provided ethically by private, competitive companies, such as arrests, but many can.

Some examples:

  • electricity (and perhaps water) - generation is private, last mile is public; cities basically buy electricity from suppliers with the goal of reliability and price
  • roads - should be funded based on use, meaning vehicle registration taxes, gas taxes, tolls, etc, not subsidized with income taxes; this allows other methods of transportation to compete, like rail
  • police - split force into two parts, those that don't need extra authority (could be privatized) and those that do (cannot be privatized); the former can handle citations, trespass, etc, and can only detain, not arrest, search, taze, shoot, etc; the latter would be the current police system, but with higher pay and expectations

Basically, how can we solve problems with less government/force?

how do you prevent corporations eroding rule of law?

Limit what the legislature can do and push regulations and whatnot to court precedence. I trust juries way more than legislators. The attorney general's main job should be to sue companies and set regulations by winning cases and setting precedent.

Legislatures want reelection, so campaign donations have a lot of sway, and that may be more effective than actually doing what constituents want. There's a clear conflict of interest there, so no wonder wealthy companies get their way.

An AG, on the other hand, could be compensated based on winning lawsuits. If they win a lot, they could make a ton of money, perhaps more than whatever the companies they're suing would be willing to pay. Individuals could also bring their own suit, so a bad AG would just push it onto the private sector, which is a check on the AG. And it's not just companies that could get sued, but the regulator bodies themselves, so it's a check on corruption there as well.

The important thing is that regular people decide what's reasonable, not elected legislators. Legislators should set the big picture (pollution is bad), courts get into specifics (pollution value X is too much), and companies respond by making risk-adjusted decisions (test to make sure pollution is sufficiently under X to avoid lawsuits).

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The world is ~~sinful~~ anti-democratic backsliding but we just have to wait until the ~~Second Coming~~ the Election happens when everything will be magically fixed. Any attempt to make actual progress makes you a ~~lukewarm Christian~~ tankie anything less than ~~the Apocolypse~~ the Election (which is definitely fair and free and democratic full of extremely popular and nice politicians) is completely useless. Also consuming certian media or makin certain lifesytle choices is ~~sinful and unchristian~~ makes you a tankie or a rebellious ineffective anarchist or a secret conservative.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 hours ago

so democracy bad?

[–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 85 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is literally just almost every terminally online ML lol

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[–] abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 57 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You forgot to mention both have accelerationists willing to make people's lives worse to hasten the ~~Rapture~~ Revolution.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Comrade, this time it’s really late stage capitalism comrade, trust me comrade. Revolution is imminent, the workers will rise up. / repeat for 150 years.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

both have accelerationists

Accelerationism isn't a policy, it's a coping mechanism.

"Actually, I love that things aren't going my way, because it'll all work out in the end" is what you say when you're down bad with no clear hope of recovery.

And complaining about acceleratism is just scapegoating. You're not in this position because a secret cabal of extremists is sabotaging your milquetoast efforts because they think losing harder is good.

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[–] 1XEVW3Y07@reddthat.com 61 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Especially over the past few years, this viewpoint seems to dominate over so many leftist spaces, and I believe it's part of what led to Trump winning the election. I don't particularly like the Democrats either, but so many refuse to vote for anything other than an impossible overnight jump to socialism.

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[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 28 points 3 days ago

"and if you don't live by MY interpretation of some dead guy's beliefs, you are wrong and are worse than the enemy*

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Could it be because extremist platforms (like filthy rich preachers, Fox News, or toxic, algorithmic apps) inevitably lead to this?

It's almost like clergy and retired Silicon Valley royalty and social sciences/social media researchers have been warning of this exact thing, over and over, for decades...

[–] Taokan@sh.itjust.works 19 points 3 days ago

Downvote me father for I have committed bad praxis.

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 3 days ago (44 children)
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[–] kayzeekayzee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This may be the worst take I've ever heard tbh

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 days ago

Both sides same horseshoe isn't even a new take

[–] WiredBrain@lemmy.ca 29 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)

Great take. We must ask ourselves: what happens the day after the revolution?

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Well if we look at China, Cuba, the USSR, Vietnam, Laos, you get invaded/bombed by America.

But also continue to work really hard, but now your labor goes to bringing yourself and a billion others out of poverty instead of further expanding the power of the bourgeoisie.

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