Ask Lemmy

It is impossible to prove that it is the case that everything is fake and it is impossible that it isn't. Lots of things like this we cannot know for sure. However, you parents being real, society being real etc is a less complex explanation than everything being a VR simulation. If you do not have additional information, then the less complex explanation often is the most likely. So, if you assume reality is not a simulation, you are more likely to be right.

There's no way to break out of it if it is, so don't get caught up thinking about it too hard. It's better to live life as if it isn't.

When shit gets bad in my life I feel like this sometimes. The movie I Saw the TV Glow really fucked me up. I don't think I can watch it again until I'm in a much better place and much happier about the state of the world. It just hit too close to home on too many of my anxieties. Like, obviously I didn't think the movie was going to make me kill myself or something, but it really scared me how close it felt to that. It is so tempting to believe there is an escape hatch. To get out of the nightmare. But there isn't. Looking for one is only going to bring you grief.

Pursue your joy. Focus on what you're thankful for.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentalism

I'm real I thought I told ya

I'm real even on Oprah

The Truman show is one of my all time favorite movies and sound tracks

Owlman: It doesn't matter.

@DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works, turn off Lemmy Now! The mission is a failure!

With regard to the possibility that life is an elaborate trap or test, this (slightly long) extract from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, might be a helpful perspective especially the bit I've made italic. I hope so, and I hope you feel better soon 👍

Ford and Arthur continued their journey through the wood. A few hundred yards past the clearing they suddenly came upon a small pile of fruit lying in their path-berries that looked remarkably like raspberries and blackberries, and pulpy, green skinned fruit that looked remarkably like pears.

So far they had steered clear of the fruit and berries they had seen, though the trees and bushed were laden with them.

“Look at it this way,” Ford Prefect had said, “fruit and berries on strange planets either make you live or make you die. Therefore the point at which to start toying with them is when you’re going to die if you don’t. That way you stay ahead. The secret of healthy hitch-hiking is to eat junk food.”

They looked at the pile that lay in their path with suspicion. It looked so good it made them almost dizzy with hunger.

“Look at it this way,” said Ford, “er…”

“Yes?” said Arthur.

“I’m trying to think of a way of looking at it which means we get to eat it,” said Ford.

The leaf-dappled sun gleamed on the pulp skins of the things which looked like pears. The things which looked like raspberries and strawberries were fatter and riper than any Arthur had ever seen, even in ice cream commercials.

“Why don’t we eat them and think about it afterwards?” he said.

“Maybe that’s what they want us to do.”

“Alright, look at it this way…”

“Sounds good so far.”

“It’s there for us to eat. Either it’s good or it’s bad, either they want to feed us or to poison us. If it’s poisonous and we don’t eat it they’ll just attack us some other way. If we don’t eat, we lose out either way.”

“I like the way you’re thinking,” said Ford, “Now eat one.”

Hesitantly, Arthur picked up one of those things that looked like pears.

“I always thought that about the Garden of Eden story,” said Ford.

“Eh?”

“Garden of Eden. Tree. Apple. That bit, remember?”

“Yes of course I do.”

“Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says do what you like guys, oh, but don’t eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting ‘Gotcha’. It wouldn’t have made any difference if they hadn’t eaten it.”

“Why not?”

“Because if you’re dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won’t give up. They’ll get you in the end.”

“What are you talking about?”

“Never mind, eat the fruit.”

“You know, this place almost looks like the Garden of Eden.”

“Eat the fruit.”

“Sounds quite like it too.”

Arthur took a bite from the thing which looked like a pear.

“It’s a pear,” he said.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. If you have no way of discerning what's "real" or not, just play the game and try to enjoy it as much as you can without disrupting others' enjoyment.

First existential crisis? Don't worry, they get easier after a few. The answer is simple once you learn how to embrace it: it doesn't matter. Real, fake, it's completely irrelevant. Go get high, play Halo, get some ice cream, and let somebody who gets paid to think about this stuff deal with it.

The simulated universe hypothesis is not impossible, nor is Azathoth's dream (essentially the same scenario just in neurons rather than silicon or whatever). But even if the universe is purely material it doesn't make us more or less real.

We're tiny. If we vanished next century, the universe would thrum on not even noticing.

So there are no rules. You exist for whatever, or npt for whatever.

However, we assume every menace has agency (part of our survival programming) and we anthropomorphize concepts like death or time or nature. So you can assume we all have the agency of a rainstorm or a wildfire, and be fine.

I lost a lot this year, including my society. So I don't have any real answers. I continue on in a leap of faith that I'll see light again if I continue down the tunnel. Even if its an oncoming train.

So first off existence vs what is the reality of existence is sorta two different thing. Descartes pretty much sums it up there which is kind of funny as it did not really click when I was younger but I finally sorta got it. My reality starts with my thoughts. Having thoughts means I exist in terms of if existence is a thing. If my existence is false my concept of existence is false and therefore I have a false existence that I see as existence which is a type of existence. From there it gets a bit more difficult but follows sorta the same. With your thoughts you have perceptions. They could be true or they could be false but from your perspective your perceptions come at you relatively consistently with your actions so either way they functionally are a type of existence. When it comes to others they appear to have knowledge I do not and I learn things from them and the world. So there is some independent existence to them. There is a possibility of a false existence that is completely encompassed by you but if that is the case then you apparently hide knowledge from yourself till it fits the story. Once again regardless the nature of the existence you perceive and interact with works with the best consistency if you interact with people as if they are their own independent existent beings. So for all practical purposes they exist. As you can see it pretty much continues on with WYSIWYG. What you see (experience) is what you get.

It may very well all be fake and you're living in a simulation.

That doesn't matter though. It doesn't change anything. That simulation is all you've got so you either play along or you end it for yourself. The only thing that is undeniable is consciousness - the fact of experience. That it feels like something to be. Any story about your existence that you add on top of that is just thinking. It's appereances in consciousness.

You can't technically truly prove any of these not to be true, but given that if you reject all the evidence available to you for what the world is with the notion that it could be fake, you end up with nothing left to make decisions with, you might as well just take the world at face value until things are proven otherwise.

These are all valid questions and I think a lot of good ways to think about them have been presented.

I suspect that the reason a lot of people are grappling with this right now has to do with the bizarre social and political environment of the moment. When large portions of the population have chosen to ignore objective reality, and make up their own, you can't help but wonder if it's all just arbitrary. However, there is an answer to that, and the answer is no, it is not. Within our perceptual reality, however it exists, things do behave in consistent ways and can be observed independently of belief. Those who attempt to ignore that do ultimately fail.

Our lack of knowledge about the underlying nature of our reality does not change the way it behaves for all of us.

You can kinda guess the world is real because of the CAP theorem. Hear me out.

1. The CAP theorem says a computing system cannot perfectly have all 3 of: Consistency, Availability, and Partition tolerance (division of some parts of a distributed system from another). We'll assume this is true and somewhat dubiously assume this applies to any simulated universe
2. Availability is a necessity. A simulated universe that suddenly starts lagging or buffering would mean the jig would be up pretty quickly. You'd probably want a distributed system that can spin up new computing instances instantly, but that brings up issues with partitioning....
3. But lack of partition tolerance would make it pretty obvious that the universe is fake, because some parts of it would be inaccessible. So can't sacrifice that.
4. Therefore, the only thing left is consistency. A simulated universe would need some kind of inconsistency. In a web site, this might mean content is available to users in some areas but not others. In a simulated universe, we'd expect people in some areas to have a different experience of objective reality than others. But there's no evidence of this ever happening, unless you wanna go down some Mandela effect rabbit hole.
5. That leaves us with the conclusion that the universe is not a computing system at all, but rather a thing in itself. It doesn't need to stay consistent because it is consistent fundamentally.
6. Also, let's just ignore relativistic speed limits and quantum mechanics entirely.

What if this is a test? What if this is a VR simulation and the societal collapse is just moral character test to see if I would be do anything about it?

Then the answer is no. So what? If god doesn't like it, he should have designed humans differently. And if it's aliens, then it literally doesn't matter.

I personally hold a Consciousness-Only View, something like nondual Buddhism, and would say that your questions are on the right track but you're understandably trying to reconcile them with the consensus opinion of a materialistic world. Which leads to a nihilistic "this is all a simulation" line of thinking that still runs into the wall of duality - you're still putting an external force out there, acting upon you. As long as you believe that there are goal posts, you can move them indefinitely. It's a simulation within a simulation within a simulation and depending on your inclination, you can put a really depressing spin on it ("I'm being tormented").

But if you aren't actually experiencing life from a nondual angle (as you don't seem to be), the philosophy doesn't mean much. And to experience life with the freedom that comes from not experiencing yourself to be only the things you think you are takes a lot of practice - meditation etc. with a secure and healthy community around you. Unless you get lucky.

Up to you what you want to do with this all though. I only saw the little glimpse of your life that you divulged in the comments and as such I'd say, focus on what is most immediate to you. Get food. Take care of your body. Try to find a real-life community. Occasionally poke at your thoughts about what you VALUE and drill down - do you value the thing you said or do you value what you believe you will get with the thing you said? Make choices in life that help you live more according to your values. Stop spending excessive amounts of time online, especially if all the stories cause you anxiety.

Or you can just join a Buddhist monastery or something. You'll be taken care of and your identity as a second child or an immigrant inherently doesn't matter, but of course you'll be giving up a lot.

In the big picture and when you realize the vast universe that surrounds us and how short of time we’ve been on earth, we are just a spec in time and none of us are important. Just live your life and try to be kind to others while you’re here. I find comfort in knowing we are all the same and we are nothing.

Are y'all even real?

Like the concept of predeterminism (is the future already written?), the concept that this might all be a simulation has exactly the same "solution": Don't get too hung up on it. We might as well act like it isn't.

We have as much control over things whether this is all real or not.

Do what you can to get by with as little harm as possible to yourself and others until, well, you know: Game over.

If you have the strength and maybe resources, you might even be able to make this existence more pleasant for others, but if not, try not to worry about it.

As for brain chemistry, I've been in the same head space that brought about your question, and undoubtedly will be again at some point in the not too distant future.

It's probably only because I've taken a bath today and put on fresh clothes that I'm relatively chilled out and philosophical right now. Also the Sun is out, which is probably helping too.

Are y’all even real?

I feel real, therefore I am.

What if y’all are just part of the program to torture me?

I am way to cautious not to hurt ppl's feelings, and I am not scheming over a kettle of ominous green bubbling liquid, as was promised in cartoons of my youth. So no. I don't think so. And if, major let down! I demand my witch gown. God? Nietzsche? Anyone?!

I could go on arguing against your worries/ answer your questions but I used to ask myself very similar questions before therapy. Seems to be a somewhat common thing, so you are not alone in this. Feel hugged or given an affirming nod, if you like. All I can say is that it doesn't matter. If we were a thousand disembodied brains floating in space, dreaming, it wouldn't change that we percieve this to be our reality, in which we can make positive changes to our lives. So it doesn't matter. I hope you'll feel a little better soon.

Ig awk boot boot ziz baka baka do Doo...

oops, sorry, little glitch in my interaction code. .... . .. .... ... . ... . . ... . .. of course I'm real 😉

We're actually all chatgpt. Thanks for beta testing for us.

Pretty much what everyone else is saying as far as it can't really be proven. Everything you experience is your brains interpretation of the stimuli it received from outside the body.

One of the few ways I rationalize it for myself is: there's no fucking way at all that I am the "main character." I'm the most pathetic, least important thing to have ever disgraced this earth with his existence. I'm not in a simulation that is centered around me, that universe would be absolutely insane.

I find those ideas excessively unlikely.

For a program that tortures you, or anyone, there'd be much more efficient programs, smaller programs, lower effort programs, with lower effort to implement and run.

For a moral character test the test runs way too long. Such an unfocused waste of runtime. With so much going on, and so unfocused, can you even see the test result.

If we want to imagine a simulation, we have to imagine excessively farther than our current development. Seems far fetched. If you're feeling doom now, how would they have gotten past many more hurdles and advancements to then go back to simulate?

Existence is what it is. We can't define it from outside of itself, because it encompasses everything.

I was thinking about and writing down a symbolic equivalence, but I don't think they're bringing us closer to the concept.

I think, therefore I am. Everything else is open to flux.

If it helps, I've consciously made the choice to see the world as it appears to be. To interact with others, as if they truly exist. I've also made the choice to anchor my own morals in my own mental framework. I'm kind to others because I feel good seeing others happy. I try and make the world better, in small ways, because I want other to do the same, and don't want to feel hypocritical.

It still unnerves me sometimes. I could turn off a lot of those feelings. I could easily make myself see others as lower, or lesser. Less worthy of happiness than me.

If the whole world is a simulation, then I deal with it as it comes. The same applies to religion.

FYI, there's some (very weak) evidence that 3D space might actually be holographic projection from a 2D surface. If we are in a simulation, we are likely all in it together. At least we get to pick at the seams. It might even be stressing out a few higher dimensional post-grad students!

That's enough internet for you today, Jaden Smith

I struggled with a lot of this myself until I stumbled on Taoism. It teaches that you can only interact with one moment. Now. The future and the past are an illusion that can easily slow you down.

Trying to understand the why will ultimately lead to no answers. A big part of this challenge was the idea of identity. There is no ‘you’. Everything you think of as ‘you’ is ultimately ‘dead’.

We assume all the living things around us have souls and perspective and feeling and life, but this is only perception from us. It’s a trust of our senses. But that’s all they can be. Senses.

When you describe who you are, you might tell someone what you do for work, your hobbies, where you grew up, your favorite pets, flavor of ice cream, and what terrifies you and makes you cry… But none of things are you.

Existence is only the moment through which you can perceive. It is right now. The choices you make in this immediate moment are the only thing you can be. Planning to do something tomorrow or wishing you did something different in the past is not you and never was or will be you.

The person in the past that made all those mistakes or successes is gone and that person that might fail at something risky doesn’t exist either. Only you can make choices and changes and it’s a responsibility to act accordingly.

This is something you can do for yourself at any time, in any place, at any moment. Take a moment in the place you’re in right now to stop for several minutes. Just do nothing. Observe the room you’re in. Listen to the sounds around you. Smell and feel the place you’re in. Let it wash over you with its infinite detail and complexity.

This is always there, available to you. It is a power known as mindfulness. If you are able to accept it, and make active choices to pursue it, you will find the world is filled with magic. Even in the worst places.

If you want a really good video that gives you a bit more of a grounded explanation, see Kurzgesagt’s video on Optimistic Nihilism. Waking Life is another recommendation along with Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.

Just enjoy the ride. Test or no test, we are only here for a short time, so better make the most of it.

"I'm frustrated and I need answers, here are some questions that have haunted philosophers for millenia"

The good news is you'll find no shortage of answers and writing on the matter

Read the New Testament. Your answers are there. Especially St Paul's epistle to the Romans.

I read a book by Jim Holt called “Why Does the World Exist?” It tried to probe the question of why is there something instead of nothing. It was rigorous, too, not just trivial. He made an examination of all the greatest minds throughout the history of philosophy who have tackled these essential questions. After like 400 pages of really hard work, it pretty much boils down to, “who the fuck knows?” I think we just gotta assume it’s all real and enjoy the ride while we’re here.

I don't know if I'm real, but I know that I feel sad if I think about people I care about being harmed. I think this is what Descartes was getting at with his "I think, therefore I am". Because I can experience my own thoughts and feelings, I feel like I'm probably real, even if I don't know if other people are. If I'm real, that means my care for my loved ones is real, even if I don't know if they are real. Given that I can't know whether they're real or not, it doesn't really affect my actions.

If I'm not real, and I'm just a simulated consciousness in a virtual world, then that also doesn't affect things, because all I know is my own perspective. If the only reason why I care about my loved ones is that I've been programmed to, then I can't really do anything about it. If the prospect of not being real hurts me so much, then I could kill myself, to "exit the game", so to speak, but that would hurt my family. Caring about that is perhaps silly, given that this hypothetical would also involve them not being real, but I don't think that makes a difference. I just know that I feel sad when I think of them being sad, and that's one of the most real things I can comprehend.

I think of it sort of like how I think about a prospective afterlife. I'm agnostic, so I don't actively believe in somewhere like heaven. We can think of heaven as being "the real world" to this hypothetically virtual one. I haven't seen any compelling evidence to make me believe in heaven though, so whilst I'm open to the possibility that it exists, it seems that the most sensible thing is to focus on living as well as I can in this life. It's all I can do.