With how NATO reacted to Russian attack on Poland, we can safely say that everyone is now on their own, those 5% spendings on defence don't even matter, because US doesn't keep its word, and there are fifth column countries like Hungary that could just veto potential article 5.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Veto article 5.

Lol that's not how it works 😂

[–] Vikthor@piefed.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You just have no idea. What are you talking about?

Some of the drones that were shot down over Poland were shot down by the Dutch F-35s, Poland is not on their own.

And the your second error is even bigger. Nobody can veto an article 5. If a NATO member invokes article 5, other countries individually offer as much help as they deem necessary. Hungary can withhold any help, but can't prevent say UK or France from deploying their armies to Poland or Baltics.

[–] mgnome@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

"On their own" is a hyperbolization on my part. But compare how half of Europe scrambled their jets along with US to shoot couple hundred Shaheds from Iran coming to Israel, to Dutch generously deciding to send couple F-35's to protect actual NATO member after 3 years of biggest war in Europe since WW2 raging just next door, and to that add in US still planning to withdraw troops from Europe.

I just call that same thing will happen when article 5 gets invoked again - instead of "attack on one is attack on all" there will be couple of actually responsible allies helping and everyone else dragging their tails with stuff like "we'll go in if everyone else goes in" or whatever.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I think NATO is aware that this is very likely just a russian trick to probe Polish air defense and make NATO keep more of their military equipment for their own defense and send less to glorious Ukraine.

However not just the Dutch are sending stuff. Some have stuff already there and some will send more:

“In response to Russia’s recent violations of Polish airspace, the German government will strengthen its commitment to NATO’s eastern border,” said this spokesperson. This will include extending the deployment of alert squadron for air defense missions by another three months until the end of the year, the defense ministry said in a statement.

Warsaw also received declarations by Netherlands, Czech Republic, France and UK to send additional air defense equipment, Defense Minister Wladyslaw Kosiniak-Kamysz said. President Emmanuel Macron wrote on X on Thursday that France will deploy three Rafale jets to protect Poland’s airspace.

Given the situation, I think it's a good reaction to not get distracted too much, but also get ready. If russia moves forces to actually invade Poland, they will lose quicker to Ukraine and NATO can send even more to defend Poland. If not, Ukraine will get the support to beat the whole of the russian troops.

//edit

Source: https://archive.ph/dp6u5

[–] TwinkleToes@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

No doubt. But let's not pretend things are normal. The emperor of the U.S. is owned by Putin, and that's very bad. Things would be very, very different with just about any other person in the world as preisdent. But - even with that massive asset in their column - Russia are still not performing any better on the ground. Trump, as he always does, overplays his hand and attempts to use leverage he doesn't actually possess. The U.S. has very little left to influence Ukraine or any other country short of direct military intervention, which is probably even still too dangerous to consider getting away with. They already tried threatening invasion of allies in Canada and Greenland, moronic sanctions to try and create a global recession that would make countries more interested in their own economic woes than supporting Ukraine. They cut almost all direct support and instead are having Euope buy US arms for Ukraine, which in theory is good for the US Defense industry. At this point, purely European support and increasing arms production sovreignty is probably enough for ukraine to continue resisting for a nearly indefinite period of time. Should it be this way? Of course not, but this is a messy but permanent divorce for ukraine to free itself from a 1,000 year enslavement project from it's brutalist horde neighbor.

Trump is in failing health, their time to extract a favorable peace for his boss in the kremlin is drawing short. If Trump is neutered in the mid-terms, or better yet - dies before then - then things likely get much, much worse much, much faster for Russia. They are the ones talking peace terms, which in itself indicates a degrading position for them considering their initial goal of total national destruction of Ukraine. When first mumbles of peace started a couple months ago, Russia's baseline position was "TOTAL CAPITULATION, DEARMAMENT AND NEUTRALITY". Then it moved to "THE 4 ANNEXED OBLASTS AND DEARMAMMENT!". Then it moved to "GIVE US DONESTK, LUHANSK AND CRIMEA!". In a few weeks, their demands will probably be lower than that. Ukraine has shown the luxury of being able to simply reject absurd Russian demands for excessie terms, and not much else has happened, other than Orange Baby losing interest and going off to pout in the corner.

Ukraine is, of course, suffering, but haven't REALLY been pushed hard yet. Their drone strength and missile campaign against Russian oil and gas is being felt and isn't easily solved. They haven't drafted people under 25 yet. Ukraine's best bet at a lasting peace might well be to keep bleeding the Russian war machine. Russian citizenry has only JUST started to feel the pinch of this idiotic vanity project by their perverted gangster ghoul king.