Stealth is where I started using BitD style clock long before BitD was published. Stacking failure on stealth roll and increasing the alarm level works better than waiting for the first player to fail
this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2025
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Absolutely. I'm that Nat one Player
This is why my group takes the median result on a group check. That 20 should be able to make up for the 1, and the final result is a 17 (rounding down).
This is also sorta how RAW works (in DnD 5e), to quote the PHB:
Group Checks
When a number of individuals are trying to accomplish something as a group, the DM might ask for a group ability check. In such a situation, the characters who are skilled at a particular task help cover those who aren't.
To make a group ability check, everyone in the group makes the ability check. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails.
Taking the median roughly has the same effect, it only has a chance to differ if the number of successes and the number of failures are tied.
The 2024 rules specifically clarify that stealth is not typically a suitable skill to be rolled in such a way.
D&D 5e was already trash. 2024 is stupid. If you choose to use their system, for whatever reason, ignore anything they say that makes for a bad experience. I can't see a good argument why this shouldn't work this way.
So what, exactly, is the justification for how a rogue "covers for" a plate wearing paladin with no dex bonus? Keep in mind that that "half must succeed" rule means the rogue is very slightly more likely to succeed with a noisy partner than alone, assuming that success and failure are possible outcomes for both participants. Even if it's impossible for the other to succeed the rogue is at worst unimpeded.
That or just count the passes vs the fails. I think of it like the 1 was just about to step on something noisy, or round a corner without taking a peek just as a guard walks by, but the 20 grabs them by the collar and pulls the back in the nick of time
Think about the following situation: You approach the guard tower stealthily. They are on watch so the DC is 15. Your party of 5 rolls a 13, two 14s, a 19 and a 24. Does the group make the check? What about a 2, a 3, two 15s and a 16? Which party is stealthier?
Oh, sure, if there's something extra that makes sense to give them for a really good set of rolls then the former party is much more deserving of it. If it's just a pass/fail "they saw you or they didn't" deal then it doesn't matter
Sorry but (1+17+18±20)/4=14
😔
I got +18 to stealth. Of course, I also have a GM who is physically incapable of rolling below a nat 18 for hostile NPCs.
A natural 18 would, without any bonuses, not clear your stealth even if you rolled a nat 1. If you rolled even a 10 that would give them a 28DC perception check to see you.
I meant 18 on the die plus the NPC's perception bonus.
You realise enemies do also have bonuses right.
I do, and even indicated that, but a +18 is fucking wild. How high are these bonuses? Not saying it isn’t possible it’s just that your story loses some impact without details is all.
Could be something other than D&D. +18 is pretty easily achievable in mid-level Pathfinder 2e.
18 is wild, so I would assume 16 or 18 wis guards proficient in perception, by level 17 would get +10 without any other kind of modifiers.
If they are rogue guards with 14 wisdom they get to +10 by level 4 with expertise. Again, if the DM is handling stuff to get them get to +18 I'd assume he can make guards get +10 too.
Just hold perfectly still and pretend to be an empty suit of decorative armor.
It's not his fault they had the mahna mahna song playing. You just HAVE to sing it out loud!
Follow the Leader in PF2 solves this gracefully as well
All D&D groups should at least consider PF2. It's better in almost every way. Any confusing D&D rule/exception is pretty much fixed in PF2. It also isn't owned by WotC/Hasbro, which is a nice bonus.
PF2 is only better if you want tactical combat and lots of options to create builds. Sorry to inform you that's it's not what all tables want, so no, "All D&D groups" does not have to consider PF2.
It's the case in mine (and we play a lot of differents ttrpgs). PF2 is just too much, and is in the same boat as Shadowrun : ain't nobody got time for that.
(also, as 5e is CC-BY now, it is not "own" by anyone (only the D&D brand is), wich is not the case with the ORC licence and Paizo)
PF2 is very similar to 5E. Sure, PF1 is too much, but 2 is basically 5e without the need to memorize a shit ton of exceptions because the rules weren't thought out when they were first written.
(also, as 5e is CC-BY now, it is not "own" by anyone (only the D&D brand is), wich is not the case with the ORC licence and Paizo)
If you buy an official book or pay a subscription, that money is going to WotC. That's what I mean by own, and that's what everyone means. Sure, you can create content for it legally still. That doesn't not mean they don't own the system.
But also the one guy in full plate tripping or having something happen could be hilarious.