worried it could be a death sentence for hostages held in Gaza.
I hate to sound insensitive, but even if they get the hostages, this feels like:
Except somehow even more of a caricature.
this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2025
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Like they even care about hostages. They let the October 7th attack happen, not taking any measures while being warned even by foreign countries. The lives of the hundreds killed that day didn't really matter. Having a reason for war was the important thing for them.
Israel also murdered some of their own civilians as they were dragged back to Gaza, employing the "Hannibal doctrine" that previously was only used to murder their own soldiers to prevent them being taken POW.
Pretty telling that even Netanyahu's own military experts have said that this is a bad idea and a strategic mistake.
What does (Israel) want from us?
the hostages and hamas to disarm? i thought this was well known
Hamas has made an offer of surrendering completely, returning the prisoners of war (as well as any hostages) and leaving forever in exchange for a Palestinian state. Israel has repeatedly rejected that deal. I wonder why?
Hell, they accepted it once and then reneged on it. That was the Trump deal.
Hamas has made an offer of surrendering completely, returning the prisoners of war (as well as any hostages) and leaving forever in exchange for a Palestinian state
Source
Hamas Member of Parliament Khalil al-Hayya, also deputy chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau, told the Associated Press in April 2024 that Hamas is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#7_Oct_2023%E2%80%93present
Hamas's goal has been a Palestinian state for years now. Also, Hamas had already agreed to give back the hostages and not rebuild its military capabilities in Trump's January ceasefire; it was Israel who reneged on that like it has reneged on every other ceasefire agreement it has ever signed.
Pre-1967 borders include most of Jerusalem and the 4 holiest Jewish sites. Imagine if Israel said they would offer peace in exchange for Mecca and Medina.
Your attempt to derail the conversation because the facts aren't on your side has been noticed, but I'll bite.
There are about a hundred and one different ways one could solve this problem. For example, Israel could have custodianship over the relevant holy sites like Jordan does over the Temple Mount. For another, any kind of agreement could be worked out to let Israeli citizens visit these sites (as long as Palestinians are allowed to visit the Temple Mount). Alternatively, we could decide that this all makes no sense for a hundred different reasons and go for a one-state solution with no borders in historical Palestine. Point being: This is not and has never been a serious hurdle towards peace, only an excuse. In serious peace negotiations in the near future, Israel's position would be so strong as to make getting such concessions from the Palestinian side trivial. I should point out, though, that it's far from guaranteed that this will be the case in fifteen or twenty years; at that point Israel would be forced to make concessions that actually hurt.
You are still defending Hamas. They have never offered or agreed to any plausible peace deal. They have only made demands in order to keep the fighting going.
Israel has released 100s of prisoners, including violent terrorists who murdered peace activists. That's dozens of times more individuals than Hamas has released or ever agreed to release.
Israel has offered safe passage to friendly countries for Hamas leadership to step down and release remaining hostages.
In the end I believe you are right that Israel will have to make even more painful concessions if they continue down this path. Hamas has demonstrated that they will fight to the last man no matter how many Palestinians have to suffer or die while they hide in their tunnels and continue to torture their hostages.
I see you're desperate to derail the conversation again now that your first attempt has failed. It's painfully obvious and does your monstrosity of a cause no good, so you should consider stopping. I won't dignify this with a response since you and everyone else reading this knows exactly what I was going to say, but I'll just note that in the comment you're responding to, the word "Hamas" appears exactly zero times.
Maybe too many people have blocked you or something, so I'm not sure if you just can't see that Hamas is the entire discussion of this thread from the first comments.
It's no surprise to me that someone would fling accusations rather than responding with anything substantive, although that's not me. I've made the point, and provided widely available and globally relied upon sources. You have replied with name calling and rhetoric, so I am okay with your decision not to respond. Probably better for both of us.
Internstional law say that all lands stolen by israel in 67 is palestinians. They csn visit thosr sites as forrigner or accept a one state solution
Mecca and Medina aren't in Palestine. It might include "most of Jerusalem" but it's the border recognized by international laws. Fact don't care about your feelings
Imagine a bunch of foreigners coming in, and deciding that the majority of your farmable land should belong to them.
Oh wait, I don't have to. That's how Israel was created.
I'd prefer pre-1947 borders but pre-1967 is better than nothing.
It's the same fucking cult anyway, only different sects. They can share. Oh wait, religious people are immature children so they literally can't.
If only it were about religion (hint: it's never been about religion)
Religion is crucial to making people not question authority, to make them ignore what they hear and what they see, to make them feel not responsible for their actions. Submission is incredibly dangerous, and it's what the whole cult of Yahweh is founded on.
Except Zionism was started by secular Jews and Zionists today are mostly Evangelical Christians. Israel and its creation has always been colonial and not religious. Religion is mostly a fig leaf/cover for it.
To paraphrase from Ilan Pappe, "Most Zionists don't believe in God, but they believe God promised them Israel"
Al-Hayya said Hamas does not regret the Oct. 7 attacks, despite the destruction it has brought down on Gaza and its people. He denied that Hamas militants had targeted civilians during the attacks — despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary — and said the operation succeeded in its goal of bringing the Palestinian issue back to the world’s attention.
Damn they really don't give a shit about their own civilians, just fodder for western leftists
The worst thing for Israel is dead Palestinian children
The best thing for Hamas is dead Palestinian children
The worst thing for Israel is dead Palestinian children
They want all palestinians gone
no they don't lol
there's 2.2 million of them in a space the size of Manhattan, if they wanted to genocide them they could have done it 1000x over by now
Over a span of around 100 days, members of the Tutsi ethnic group, as well as some moderate Hutu and Twa, were systematically killed by Hutu militias. While the Rwandan Constitution states that over 1 million people were killed, most scholarly estimates suggest between 500,000 and 800,000 Tutsi died, mostly men.[5][6][7] The genocide was marked by extreme violence, with victims often murdered by neighbours, and widespread sexual violence, with between 250,000 and 500,000 women raped
and they did it mainly with machettes
that is a genocide
Genocide isn't about the number of deaths. It's about the intent.
If you listen to what Israelis and Israeli leaders are saying, and the pattern of actions, it fits the definition of genocide.
In previous cases of genocide, explicit statements of intent wasn't required to call it as such (and we have them this time), as the actions and patterns of behaviour were enough to ascribe intent.
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
1 Killing members of the group;
2 Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3 Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4 Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5 Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Only one of the list needs to be fulfilled in order to be considered genocide. 1, 2, and 3 have been demonstrated. With intent.
Even if we put genocide aside, you cannot deny the ethnic cleansing aspect.
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed
I don't care for any legal definition tbh, if anything trying to check boxes (with the icj quoting tweets? how low will we go :\ ) it feels like the word has been completely watered down from meaning I'm going to go door to door, house to house and kill every single one of you, I'm going to cut you into pieces, rape your wife and children then cut them into pieces, I'm going to capture you, put you and everyone you know on trains, torture you, and then gas you until not one of your people are left...to whatever Gaza is...
Even if we put genocide aside, you cannot deny the ethnic cleansing aspect.
There's definitely war crimes in there from both sides, Israel is not doing itself any favours taking out an apartment building to take out 1 to 2 hamas members, that's a bit cold, it's why I'm surprised the palestinians haven't risen up and killed every hamas member out there as surely they must recognise hamas are radioactive
Hundreds join Gaza's largest anti-Hamas protest since war began
The protests in northern Gaza came a day after Islamic Jihad gunmen launched rockets at Israel, prompting an Israeli decision to evacuate large parts of Beit Lahia, which sparked public anger in the area.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo
But nothing really major since then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Gaza_Strip_anti-Hamas_protests
I just wish this shitshow was over so we can go back to focusing on Ukraine :(
You're clearly blind, not because you can't see the atrocities being committed but because you either don't want to or don't care to.
I'm done trying to convince you of anything.
ok? i didn’t realise you were trying so hard, why do you feel the need to convince me of anything? we’re chatting on a forum not fighting on the front line
im also more than capable of coming to my own opinions on things, i’ve never changed my mind after 80 left wing progressives hounded me into submission, just like 80 conservatives can’t hound me into saying that being gay is a bad thing no matter how many “science facts” they throw at me
while i can see israel doing bad things, i know exactly how jihadi’s act since i’ve been watching and reading about them in depth since 2001, they are by far the most evil fighters in the world, nobody straps tnt to a toddler like an islamic jihadi, and i have very little sympathy for any town/city/group that harbours them
if you watch for example
Mosul offensive: Fighting ISIS on the frontline in Iraq
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx6U3x2M3XA
even the iraqi army struggles to determine who is a civilian and who is an islamic jihadi, because (surprise surprise) the jihadis hide in plain clothes amongst women and children
they were even scared to let a woman with a child in worried she was a suicide bomber
i completely understand why israel would rather stay 100 yards away and bomb from the air rather than go into a snake pit
so my question is where is hamas and where are the palestinians?
Hamas is an idea. Even if every single Hamas fighter were magically killed instantly, Hamas 2 would pop up because of what Israel has done and continues to do. Hamas itself doesn't really matter.
Also lumping together Iraqi jihadis (as you call them) with Palestinians and their liberation resistance movement is kinda racist. They're not the same.
For the record I do not advocate for Hamas, nor do I support their actions but their existence is inevitable.
The real question you should be asking is why is there a fascist ethnostate in the first place? And why is it propped up by Western countries?
Also lumping together Iraqi jihadis (as you call them) with Palestinians and their liberation resistance movement is kinda racist.
lol all Jihadi's look the same to me🤣
And why is it propped up by Western countries
It's not? The economy of Israel is incredible, it's a true 1st world western economy surrounded by awful trillion dollar islamic authoritarian petro-states and awful backwards islamic hellholes, America would have already invaded and stuck a starbucks, mcdonalds and giant american flag right in the middle of Gaza if it was next to it
You don't care about the legal definition because you are a savage who don't believe in international laws and civilized societies
You claim to be against extremism while defending jewish extremism
Learn the definition of genocide first instead of embarassing your self. Why netenyahu call the west bank as judea when judea was destroyed thousands of year ago? Why they build settlements in palestinians lands, why they stsrve gazans, why did he compare all gazans to amalek? Why israel destroy all palestinians historical sites? Why does honest israelis ask palestinians to live in egypt?
They armed Hamas in the first place
They don't care about the hostages or Hamas, Bibi just wants to get rich selling the land.
Bibi just wants to stay in power and out of jail.
So not only are you racist towards Aboriginal peoples, but you’re also a Zionist?
It’s like you’re speed running being a terrible person.
Yes, Netanyahu is a far-right extremist and saying he only wants Hamas to surrender at this point is wild.
But Zionism itself is not the problem here. The problem is fascism. Zionism is only the idea that Israel as a Jewish state should exist. That could very well co-exist with a Palestinian state. That the Israeli government doesn't want to allow that is because the government is fascist.
Zionism is 100% the problem. Zionism is a branch of fascism.
No decent person should ever promote ethnostates.
There should be no “Jewish” state, just as there should be no state for any other single culture or religion. That is racism.
That's not true. Zionism is the idea that Jews should build a state for them and only them. It's inherently predicated on ethnically cleansing indigenous people (and oppressing whoever are allowed to remain) to make way for a Jewish and only Jewish society. Here's the so-called father of Zionism on the topic:
As to al-Khalidi concerns about the non-Jewish majority population of Palestine, Herzl replied rhetorically: "who would think of sending them away?" and concluded ambiguously that "If he (the Ottoman Sultan) will not accept it, we will search and, believe me, we will find elsewhere what we need."[c] Rashid Khalidi notes that this sentiment was penned 4 years after Herzl had confided to his diary the idea of spiriting away the population of whatever country was chosen for a future Jewish state to make way for Jews:[49][page needed]
We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.'
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl
The Nakba was not a coincidence. You said that fascism, not Zionism, is the problem, but Zionism is a fascist ideology. Otherwise what do the words "Jewish state" even mean?
The problem is definitely zionism an ethenic supermasist ideology that can only be compared to the aryan race supermacy. Thst's why every single israeli prime was a war criminal
We want the settler colony to disarm and stop existing, thank you for your attention to this matter.