this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2025
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With preparations for the 2030 census already underway, Trump said Thursday he has instructed his administration to start work on a "new" census.

According to a social media post by Trump, that census would exclude millions of people living in the country without legal status — an unprecedented change to how the country has conducted population tallies since the first U.S. census in 1790.

The 14th Amendment requires the "whole number of persons in each state" to be included in a key set of census numbers used to determine how presidents and members of Congress are elected.

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[–] oakey66@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It’s illegal. This is literally in the constitution.

[–] Medic8teMe@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm not sure you've noticed but...fascist dictator.

[–] oakey66@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

What about my response said that I haven’t noticed?

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 71 points 5 days ago (2 children)

they spent the last 2 decades whining that everything that happens that they dont like is because 'political' reasons... 'you cant prosecute me for that, its just political!'

and then they go and prove the fact that every accusation is an admission of guilt by actually making non-political stuff political.

we need to stop calling them republicans and lay it out... youre fascists. they want an oligarchical fascist dictatorship just like fucking russia you pieces of shit.

republicans are anti-democracy

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago

Fuck 'em. They belong in prison. They can whine about "political reasons" from there.

[–] onslaught545@lemmy.zip 19 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Illegal immigration is absolutely something that needs to be handled politically.

But the answer is to change the laws to make the path to citizenship easier.

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 23 points 5 days ago (1 children)

sure, but its also an incredibly minor issue that has somehow taken over every aspect of the government costing us hundreds of billions of dollars for literally no returned value.

its like these assholes who rage-vote because they hate trans people when less than 1 tenth of 1 percent of the country identifies as such.

its a full on waste of time and money but no one seems to care because the largest swath of elected officials are here to grift and not govern

[–] JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 days ago

When I tell people of an inmate who required a slightly more expensive blanket due to an allergy, and the courts spent more fighting it than just giving every inmate the better blanket; they are outraged.

When I tell people a company spent more fighting adding trans care to their insurance plan than funding it for 100 years; they hem and haw about how expensive our care is and dance around being uncomfortable with our transitions.

I saw numbers calculating a bed in one of the new concentration camps costing as much as a cheap house.

It's all grift and distractions, and so much of our population eats up the propaganda.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 16 points 5 days ago

They tried to handle it politically. The Senate spent a lot of time on compromise immigration legislation last year, only to have Trump call up Republican Senators and say "You can't fix this right now, I need to run on how broken it is!"

[–] discosnails@lemmy.wtf 26 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Ok I think people are missing the point here. This is the pretext to send ICE door to door to interrogate people, and you'd better believe they'll be asking about political affiliation, sexual orientation, etc...

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I mean maybe but the reasoning is dumber than that. There aren't 65 million illegals here and a census would prove that to be so, whereas if you just don't count them on purpose you can just say there are however many you'd like.

[–] Gerudo@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Exactly the first thing that came to my mind. It would give all those ICE fucks an actual job to do with bonus kidnappings!

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago

Remember how the mouth-breathers were busy saying how Obama was going to do Evil Things (TM) with the census back in 2010?

Every accusation from these dumbasses is a confession.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Population count for representation is explicitly not based in citizenship per the US constitution, but free people in the district. This is yet another illegal power grab.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago (4 children)

The SCOTUS will undoubtedly come and say some bullshit like "The founders obviously meant "free people" to only include US citizens, because they didn't explicitly say foreigners were included"....

[–] JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 days ago

I've heard tell some pig farms use the code NHI- No Humans Involved in cases involving homeless, illegal, or minority victims.

[–] Airowird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 days ago

So ... illegals count as three fifths? Because it clearly says "other", meaning whatever you define as "free people", whoever is not is also getting counted.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Right, "originalism" really means "I can interpret this however it benefits the reactionary right."

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah, but you need to have the special Ouija board.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

It means "We fetishize a bunch of old, dead white men. Since we can't ask them their opinions on things anymore, we will project our views onto them in a desperate attempt to gain legitimacy."

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 5 days ago

SCOTUS refused to take up a similar case in 2020, saying that it was "premature."

So I guess that means it'll be A OK this time.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It's not unprecedented, he tried this last time, and the courts stopped him. Now there are more Trumpy judges, though, so we'll see what tortured logic the Supreme Court uses to back him his time.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago

Going to be hilarious when they do this and it ends up hurting Florida and Texas the most. They'll end up losing a ton of congressional seats, mostly out of Republican controlled areas. They'll have to scramble to redistrict again to keep their gerrymandering going.

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

What’s the point of this even? Riiiiight if I close my eyes it’s not there. But on a systemic level. And in the meantime, give ICE a bigger budget than the FBI.

💩🤡🇺🇸🤡🇺🇸🤡💩

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Federal funds to states are calculated by population, in part, iirc.

[–] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes, but so is the house of rep allocation. And the info is used in redistricting. The goal is to cause blue areas to lose seats and red areas to gain seats.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

How would that work? Rural areas actually have a lot of immigrants. I live in a rural area and it's probably 20% immigrants. This seems like it would hurt rural areas more than the blue cities.

[–] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

... you think racists think things through? I was relaying their dumbass logic, not what would actually happen.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

Lol fair enough, I feel like it's the same people who use undocumented workers are now surprised that the guy who ran on deporting everyone who isn't a white male is deporting their income at this point. The complete stupidity of the right-wing is just baffling.

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago

Release the Epstein files

[–] TWeaK@lemmy.today 7 points 5 days ago

They didn't count Democrat votes in 2024 so Trump could get back in office, now they're not going to count Democrats as citizens.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

Who the fuck is going to talk to a census worker these days?

[–] WhatIfEmpathy@lemmy.today 6 points 5 days ago (3 children)

The census is optional right? Just... Don't do it. Or leave that question blank.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You're missing the point.

The purpose of the census is to determine how many people are living in each district, which in turn, will determine funding, etc.

We are explicitly supposed to count every single person, not just citizens, because what we really want is just accurate data about how many people live in x district. Because things like basic infrastructure is used by everyone, not just citizens (and other various reasons).

By only counting citizens, they are purposely undercounting in areas with immigrant communities so that they will receive less funding, etc., than they are meant to receive.

Trump tried to do this already during his first term, and it was shot down in court. SCOTUS refused to take up the case, saying that it would be "premature" for them to rule on the case at that time. Whatever the fuck that means.

So my guess is that it'll work this time.

[–] WhatIfEmpathy@lemmy.today 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Oh, yeah, I'm a big fan of the census when done properly. But they're throwing integrity out the window for all the reasons you just stated. So I'm not going to let their racist census reflect reality. "But you'll get less resources from the government" I live in Denver, they'll find a reason to screw us over anyway. Like the Brazilian president, I will not humiliate myself by meeting with Trump where he's at.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

It's just a very ineffective, if not completely counter-productive way to protest it. All you'd be doing by ignoring the census, is furthering the GOP's goals. Why would you do that.

[–] WhatIfEmpathy@lemmy.today 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You know what'd be ineffective? Filling out a fascist census and sending it in unchallenged. I'd rather commit to malicious compliance than straight up compliance.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

What you're suggesting is completely self-defeating.

You do you, but it is just irrational. The logic is unsound, and you're only helping the fascists.

[–] WhatIfEmpathy@lemmy.today 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

So we hand over the data willingly? That's not self defeating? Instead the right thing to do is give this regime quality data? They're rewriting the data on climate change, I don't expect them to use this data reasonably either.

The only reason he cares about a 2030 census is he still thinks he'll be in power. If he is, I don't think what I put on the census will really matter.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Actually, it is not optional. Kinda sorta.

https://www.aclu.org/documents/frequently-asked-questions-national-census

It is required by law that all persons residing in the United States on April 1, 2020 respond to the Census, and it is important for democracy to obtain an accurate count of everybody.

However, I haven't found any information saying that there is any penalty at all for not filling it out, or not answering every question. Since the important thing would be to enumerate residents, if any citizenship question appears in the 2030 census I will leave it blank, even if it means I have to mail in the paper form to do it....

[–] Glitterbomb@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

OK, OK. But what if instead of not doing it, we do it twice?

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 5 days ago

It's not optional. https://legalinsights.us/do-you-have-to-fill-out-the-census-legal-requirements-explained/

Every ten years, households across the United States receive a request to complete the U.S. Census—a nationwide count shaping political representation and federal funding. While many respond readily, questions arise about whether participation is legally required and the consequences of non-compliance. This article examines the legal obligations surrounding the census.

Mandatory Nature and Relevant Legal Obligations Participation in the decennial census is a legal duty originating from the U.S. Constitution. Article I, Section 2 mandates an “actual Enumeration” every decade, empowering Congress to establish the method.

Congress fulfilled this through federal law, primarily Title 13 of the United States Code, which governs the census. Section 141 directs the Secretary of Commerce to conduct the count.1 Other sections detail respondent responsibilities. Crucially, Title 13 requires all persons residing in the United States on Census Day (April 1st) to respond. This includes citizens, legal residents, long-term visitors, and undocumented immigrants. The legal framework confirms the compulsory nature of census participation.

[–] griff@lemmings.world 3 points 5 days ago

Leave our neighbors alone!

[–] 13igTyme@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

California, Texas, and Florida will feel this the most.