this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2025
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The bare minimum expected of a leader of the American left, and a democratic socialist, should be a willingness to say “I endorse the conclusion of mainstream human rights organizations.” Why wouldn’t Sanders be willing to do that? He says that it doesn’t really matter “what you call it,” because it’s horrific. But clearly it does matter to Sanders, because he is making a choice not to use the same language as the human rights organizations. Why is he making that choice? He has not explained.

Sanders is right that the more important debate is about actions rather than language. But genocide is also the supreme crime against humanity, and it is so unanimously reviled that it makes a difference whether we use the term. For instance: there might be a debate over whether we should cut off weapons to a state that has “engaged in war crimes.” (How many? Are they aberrations or policy?) The Allied powers in World War II engaged in war crimes, and many Americans think war crimes can be justified in the service of a noble end. But there can be no debate over whether we should ever arm a state that has engaged in genocide. Genocide has no justification, no mitigation. If a state is committing it, all ties should be cut with that state.

Actually, we can see the difference in Bernie Sanders’ own policy response to Israel’s crimes. He told CNN that “your taxpayer dollars” should not go to support a “horror.” This is true. Sanders, to his credit, has repeatedly proposed a bill that would cut off a certain amount of weapons sales to Israel. Democratic opinion has so soured on Israel that Sanders’ bill attracted a record amount of Democratic support (27 senators, more than half the caucus.) But notably, Sanders’ bill only cuts off “offensive” weapons to Israel, leaving “defensive” weapons sales intact.

We might think that it’s perfectly fine to sell “defensive” weapons. Israel’s “Iron Dome” system, which U.S. taxpayers help pay for, protects the country against incoming missiles, and protection against incoming missiles is surely a good and noble thing. But notably, we have not bought Hamas its own “iron dome.” Or Iran. Or Russia. This is because we do not support the causes for which they fight. We understand in these cases that to help the “defense” is to help the “offense.” If Russia is protected from Ukrainian missiles, it will fight Ukraine more effectively. Likewise, if Israel is protected from Hamas rocket fire, but Gaza is not protected from Israeli missiles, the balance of arms is tilted toward Israel, and they can pulverize Gaza without Hamas being able to inflict similar damage in response.

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[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 71 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Tbh, I think a lot of older Jewish people are in a tremendous amount of self denial about the whole scenario. The Jewish community spent generations drilling the idea that being Jewish was basically an antonym to genocide.

I recently listened to an interview of a Jewish professor who specializes in genocide study who talked about his initial internal conflict with admitting what he was witnessing was genocide. The guy did his best not to cry throughout the interview and failed from doing so a couple times. You could still see that he was struggling with a crisis of consciousness and identity, and it was admirable he could overcome it with academic integrity.

It's still not an excuse, but I think it's at least understandable that a people who built a cultural touchstone around their own genocide are largely in a state of disbelief that they are now participating in one.

[–] cattywampas@midwest.social 28 points 5 days ago (1 children)

To add to this, genocide is actually a pretty wide term with a lot of different ways if manifests in the real world. There's everything from the Holocaust, European colonization of the Americas, to the current situation in Palestine. I think it's an easy trap for people to fall into to say that because situations aren't exactly equal that one is a genocide and one is not.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 7 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I mean further its not the only one currently or in recent times. There is almost always one going on by the treaty definition. I mean no one uses it with russia on ukraine but it is doing several of the acts of which any meet the definition layed out. Honestly I can't see how any military action can avoid meeting the definition.

Killing members of the group;

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[–] FishFace@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

People definitely use it with regard to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, especially due to removal of children, but also due to their actions in the early stages where, for example, they murdered a very high proportion of the residents of Bucha and other small towns.

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[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 6 points 5 days ago

that being Jewish was basically an antonym to genocide.

I've heard a good while ago from a respected Jewish scholar that the main thing tying Jewish culture together is not language or religion, but the shared experience of the Holocaust.

This kinda means that a Jewish state committing genocide has a nonzero chance of erasing the Jewish identity.

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AIPAC is the biggest donor to both parties and institutions in the US. Pretty much, Israel has become a vital point in our economy, which is also known as the military industrial complex system, which keeps America running and any sort of deviation that tries to change or move it towards the lap, just gets ratcheted back towards the right slowly hence why the most of Europe views our left as center/right instead of the alternative. Literally speaking out of any sort of societal benefit for anybody get you label of a dangerous communist and a threat to democracy here in America becausewe are vastly under educated because it’s been part of the Republican plan to define education since I think it was a Nixon who was afraid of educated because it turns us into “hippies” Who generally don’t prefer war and that’s pretty much what we run on as of now not saying it’s right, not saying things can’t change But as of right now, it is basically ice-skating uphill in America, trying to get anything done that might preserve but a little erosion of democracywe have left

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago

Because they're owned, and they're pussies

[–] ToadOfHypnosis@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago
[–] heyWhatsay@slrpnk.net 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You want to really call it out? Call it a Zionist Holocaust

[–] MuskyMelon@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Just holocaust. They don't deserve owning that term anymore.

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 5 points 4 days ago

They don’t deserve owning that term anymore.

It was first used in the modern context by a British journalist covering the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, long before the Shoah happened.

That journalist's name was Winston Churchill.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

AIPAC has made calling the Gaza Holocaust a genocide illegal.

[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 days ago

that would require them to admit that they are the baddies

[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Cucks to Israel/Global Capital.

[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Because of all those checks from AIPAC.

[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 days ago

I don't think Bernie is getting cheque's from aipac, think he may be more motivated by aipac dumping money into a rival candidate. Although his term isn't up until 2030, and by then he'll be 89, so hopefully he won't be running for re-election anyway.

[–] Seaguy05@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Oh I don't know probably because they have been paid to not say it. Deny, defend, depose

Recipients

they weren't US politicians, they are AIPAC's politicians

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 days ago

They don't say it because they're paid not to.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

They don't calling it genocide as they are aiding and abetting it.

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)
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[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Bernie oppose sanctions on israel acknowledging the genocide would mean cutting all relation and trades with israel

[–] ExistentialKiwi@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

A bunch of them are being paid by Israel not to call what's happening in Gaza a genocide. Probably not the only reason, but for capitalists motivated by money it's no doubt one of the most notable reasons for their silence.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 5 days ago

Spineless. Useless. Cowards. Bought and paid for. Shitbags.

[–] ABetterTomorrow@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Why is there a photo of Bernie? I’m sure he mentioned it a few times.

[–] Soulg@ani.social 7 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Despite being on the correct side of the issue in every other way, he has been resisting calling it a genocide outright.

[–] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 5 points 4 days ago

Yep, also is still supportive of the state of Israel. That nazi state has no right to exist.

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[–] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 3 points 4 days ago

Aipac told them not too

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think there's a pretty simple reason... People are fucking terrified. They try to downplay it in their heads, they shut down, they just stop listening. They make excuses for how it couldn't happen to them, that the victims must've done something wrong to invite disaster

It's the same thing with global warming. We're so screwed, millions, maybe billions are going to die from it in our lifetimes - and we're still not really fixing the problem

You can tell people isolated events and facts, one at a time, and hope they realize the urgency themselves after learning so many bite sized snapshots

Is it good messaging? IDK, it didn't really communicate the urgency of climate change at the right moment

But if you use a word like genocide, even very technically, you lose the sheep. People already on your side are what, going to be suddenly happy you're doing enough?

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Whitewashing bullshit. They supported the genocide enthusiastically and Israel has already demonstrated that they will spend millions on small town local elections to out anybody that speaks up. They aren't scared to admit genocide is happening because of mental blocks, they are afraid of losing their AIPAC checks and positions of power.

This is Joe Biden's genocide after all, and Kamala lost because she doubled down and called for the most lethal military, and you're still here making excuses and selling the Democrats as too good hearted to handle the truth... No! They support every bit of it until it's clear to them that the people are more powerful than Israel lobbying and checks. That'll never happen when you keep giving them excuses.

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[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!

Because they’re all pieces of shit cowards who haven’t known enough conflict themselves to even comprehend the horrors for which they’re responsible. That, and / or they’re profiting big time.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Bribes. aka the same reason they do anything

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 days ago

All they need to do is harp on how much it is costing and has cost tax payers.

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