Personally I think this is wayyyyy more nurture than nature. And I also think most people are not purely a leader or purely submissive - I think we all have aspects of both.
this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2025
162 points (100.0% liked)
WomensStuff
512 readers
309 users here now
Women only trans inclusive This is an inclusive community for all things women. Whether you're here for make up tips, feminism or just friendly chit chat, we've got you covered.
Rules…
- Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women's community is a good fit for them.
- Don’t be a dick. No personal attacks, no aggression, play nice.
- Don’t hate on groups, hatefilled talk about groups is not allowed. Ever.
- No governmental politics, so no talk of Trump actions etc. We recommend Feminism@beehaw.org for that, but here is an escape from it.
- New accounts or users with few comments may have their posts removed to prevent spam and bad-faith participation.
founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
On men being natural leaders, I've read that the stereotype of "men as hunters" is somewhat ahistorical when it came to actual hunter-gatherer societies. So it makes me wonder, when exactly did that idea come about?
Victorians. They had a rather jacked up view of history
That's really interesting
The answer is usually around the Industrial Revolution, but I feel like this was way earlier.
Sometimes I really wonder just how much both get pushed into these specific roles, like for example when boys are given toy soldiers and girls are given baby dolls. Its kinda scary just how early this starts
I'm literally a domme, so my very existence proves all those alpha male dudebros wrong about women being ~naturally submissive~. Not that they care about evidence.
And how much is overwhelming societal pressure…
Excellent point. I'm sure many men feel they have to go into leadership positions that they don't want, and many women are pressed not to (think of your kids!)
About 99.93% environmental, 0.07% genetic if we go over all genes (as genetically we are basically related to animals in the primate family) as all humans are effectively clones (when compared against the genetic diversity in other species) so although there are genes that increase likelihood of aggression and ambition; their expression is usually a subset of the outcome.
There is no gene for female submission to males in humans (or any other species of which I am aware); the closest genetic thing to that is the genes for homosexuality (literally a spectrum of heterosexual/homosexuality)
Is your argument that because only around 0.07% of our genes are different between individuals, their effect can also only be 0.07%? Because that doesn't convince me, a small difference can have a large effect.
Not that you need to convince me of your claim, just wondering if I understood the argument.
Excellent deduction (and spot on).
Fair enough, it only takes a few genes to have childhood leukemia or sickle cell anemia but even with genetically identical individuals (twins for example) there are also significant examples of behavioral differences (suicidal bomber, pedophiles, etc) between them.
So it is hard to find a good number that wasn’t just a feels good number and so my entirely rough guess was based on how clonal humans are (genetically speaking).