Soulslike - Discussion, News, Memes

I think there are two interpretations of the 'soulslike' genre: bossfight-oriented and exploring-oriented. Most non-fromsoft developers put a lot of effort into bosses and fighting mechanics. Lies of P is a bright example of it. There is really cool weapon customization, challenging boss roster, and the game looks really appealing. I bought it mainly because of a cool looking combat in teaser videos. But what happened to me is the more I played the game, the more I became bored of location design, repetitive exploring mechanics and annoying storytelling. The devs clearly do everything to prevent you from missing any significant piece of lore: any quest follows by a note filling all the gaps, and if that's not enough—Gemini spells it out for you.

Lords of The Fallen, on the other hand, is a spiritual successor of early soulslikes, especially DS1, and is extremely exploring-oriented game. Locations there are intricate and interconnected, you just cannot hurriedly run through them to another bossfight. NPC quests are cryptic and easy to fail—they require reading item descriptions, backtracking, connecting all the dots by yourself, and luck. And even with all these factors combined, you will miss a lot—devs don't fear that you miss the content, making each walkthrough unique, and giving you a great feeling of completion when you manage to solve a quest. And yeah, the game has downsides. It's quite janky, some bosses are annoying to fight, and I wish there were more types of enemies. Does it make LotF a bad game? For me, it's fully redeemed by the merits I described above, but for someone it's a huge red flag.

So, the definition of quality soulslike varies depending on what you consider important in the genre. I personally consider LotF one of the best non-fromsoft games, and on the contrary, LoP was a disappointment. But there are plenty of players who enjoy tight bossfights without being forced to solve mysteries to follow the story. And each is right in their own way.

P. S. I'm interested, what LotF boss did you consider first? The tutorial kinght or the first major boss?

I thought LOTF was pretty good. Not as good as Lies of P, but up there. Certainly better than a bulk of the soulslikes I've tried or seen featured by Iron Pineapple's series about finding new soulslikes. The weakest thing was the story for me. It felt like it was trying too hard and had no original ideas.

Have you tried The Surge? Its kinda hit or miss across various aspects depending on whether you play the first or the second, but for the most part they are also fairly good. First one has a Dark Souls 1 feel for most of it, though the bosses kinda suck. The second one has better bosses, but the world vibe is really weird since it's actually populated and there are loads of side quests lol

LoTF remake is actually one of the better souls clones out there. I felt the technicalities behind that lantern mechanic are pretty cool. You are right about the combat though which is why I beat it and never came back. The truth is game development is extremely accessible nowadays. We're gonna just get more and more shitty games as they are easier to make. One that I felt also almost hit the mark was Hellpoint. Once again its weakest aspect is the combat but it gets it really close. With tons of secrets everywhere to discover.

I also hate to say it but Fallen Order was not bad. They made a star wars soulslike really as well as one could have asked for in reality. What we have here is the genre has matured. I remember it blowing up and becoming one itself, and Dark souls isnt even the first soulslike. So these games are hard to make, and need fine tuning to get right. It took the progenitors themselves several years to break the ice. I myself though LoP to be too floaty itself and the telecasts were corny, as well as the mashed London, Russian, and Gnostic themes. So to each their own too.

Maybe I just need a break from the genre...

Maybe, I didn't play Khazan yet but I thought Thymesia and Lords of the Fallen were both great.

Parrying in Lords of the Fallen is incredibly satisfying, so much so that it made parrying in many other Souls games feel bland. It also has a coop mode that is not frustrating to use.

Thymesia did a great job with the wound system. Opening wounds and then attacking them to "lock the damage in" is not just really challenging for some enemies, it's also really rewarding to time everything just right with the patterns of the bosses.

They both suffer in terms of enemy and level variety, but that has sort of become a Souls trope at this point.

Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of imitations, but very few that nail it. Never played LotF, but it makes my bullshit detector go off. Same with a lot of other soulslikes.

I think with the success of the genre and apparent difficulty to execute it well there is a kind of sweet spot or evolutionary path for games that get the soulslike elements right but aren't trying to just be clones. Tunic and Death's Door come to mind. Unsouled is a recent one I played whose combat felt great, but wasn't trying too hard. Same with Tails of Iron. I think those games all borrow from souls AND other influences enough to stand as their own new ideas and not just souls guy in armour game #1246383.

Not sure what else to say other than hopefully we get some new ideas that take the best of souls and other things to make something new and quality. And hopefully Fromsoft keeps putting out solo games on all platforms.