this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2025
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Israel and Palestine Politics Discussion

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I would be interested in hearing your arguments against this.

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[–] Deflated0ne@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Says who?

The oppressive, corrupt, radical ethnostate that's currently running a campaign of slaughter and starvation on them?

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

There is an ongoing genocide and this is your main concern? No investigation into the history, just thinly veiled racism as to why the Palestinian people don't deserve sovereigny? Fucking gross.

It's already a one-state reality, an apartheid state. The solution is equal rights and right of return for all Palestinians within historic Palestine, and reparations. See below if you want to learn more.

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Hamas, alongside many other factions, are resistance groups born out of the apartheid with the goal of liberation from the apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

De-development via the Gaza Occupation

Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.' In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

  • Page 105

Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

  • page 240

In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

  • Page 402

  • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

Blockade, including Aid

Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

After the 'disengagement' in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of 'dual-use' Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

Peace Process and Solution

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

[–] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 day ago

Why gee, with all that international good will to help the Palestinians, color me surprised that they might just be slightly radicalized.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au -1 points 1 day ago

Honestly, it's not a bad point.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs." -David Ben-Gurion

It needs to be some separate military force coming in from outside and making "both sides" behave. Primarily, the "both sides" of the Israelis since they're doing the overwhelming majority of the killing. And then as if by magic I think you would see a lot more peaceful situation.

Enacting a Palestinian state with Israelis running around all over it taking farms or killing kids whenever they feel like won't do a damn thing. It would be good for them to have representation on the world stage, that would come with recognition and would cast what the Israelis are doing in a somewhat different light, but just the state alone is not the pressing problem.