I usually have 0 confidence in the Arab states to do anything good, but this headline is misleading. What's being called for here is for Hamas to disarm and hand over its weapons to the Palestinian Authority in the process of creating a Palestinian state, which is like, duh of course independent paramilitaries shouldn't exist inside a sovereign state. It's technically a call for Hamas to disarm, but they had to have known what impression this headline would give. Fuck NYT.
this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2025
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The Gulf despots (and the ones in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait) are shit-scared of Arab democracy and have never actually done anything meaningful to help the Palestinians, besides setting up some refugee camps and treating the inhabitants as a source of contagion.
The last thing the Gulfies want to see is any Arab government with any legitimacy. It would make their own people, and the vast underclass of TCNs, start asking awkward questions.
Definitely true, but that's one thing and calling for Palestinians to stop fighting in the middle of a genocide is another. My point is that the declaration in the article isn't saying that even though the headline makes it seem so. This declaration should be seen fo what it is: A vague platitude that doesn't change the fact that they're a bunch of traitors (which, to be clear, isn't restricted to the Gulf; Egypt and Jordan for example aren't much better).
Why should palestinians drop arms before occupation end? How can you say that when israeli support ethenically cleansing palestinians?
Creating a sovereign Palestinian state is ending the occupation. Also note that I never said Palestinians should lay down their arms; I only said that when/if a democratic state is created those arms should be in the hands of that democratic state, not unelected paramilitaries.
TL;DR: Israel fucks off then Palestinian paramilitaries disband, not the other way around.
Arab countries and the west want hamas to disarm before the state is created and if the state ever got created they want it to have no army.
When you keep sending arms to israel and have great trading with them there is no reason,why israel will ever allow a state
Arab countries and the west want hamas to disarm before the state is created and if the state ever got created they want it to have no army.
This declaration explicitly states otherwise though? You can just, like, go read it. It's pretty milquetoast stuff.
False , this is the order 1- Hamas ceases power, disarms, and hands authority to PA
2 - PA conducts elections to govern all Palestinian territories
3 - Israel ends occupation and commits to a two-state solution with security guarantees.
This would just be another failed accord like Oslo accords where the PA respect it's commitment but Israel continue the occupation with even less resistance. Then the west and Arab countries continue to have great unofficial relations
Why would Hamas yield power back to the PNA after ruling Gaza for 18 years? The good of the people?
I dunno, ask them.
Hamas Member of Parliament Khalil al-Hayya, also deputy chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau, told the Associated Press in April 2024 that Hamas is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.
More seriously, Hamas's claim to legitimacy is their fight for Palestinian self-determination. If that's back on the table, they won't be able to maintain their authoritarian state anymore, because both Palestinians and the international community will want them gone, or at least out of power so democratic elections can take place. Also, this is pretty much what they accepted in the Jan 2025 ceasefire; it'd be a political impossibility for them to maintain undemocratic rule without active Israeli aggression and they know that.
TL;DR: Because they'll have no other choice. Also I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment.
The Arab states don’t give a fuck about Palestinians. The Palestinian authority doesn’t give a fuck about Palestinians. What’s the point of this?
The point is to shift the blame for all of Israel's atrocities onto Hamas. The Arab rulers are losing their grip, they've been exposed as Zionist collaborators and there's growing resentment from their people. That's been their angle this past year, people are getting disappeared in Jordan and Egypt right now if they say anything that can remotely be taken to imply the government isn't doing enough to help Gaza, and they are cracking down on public displays of support of Hamas; and state media is pushing hard the narrative that people are tired of the war and Hamas is being unreasonable and Hamas Hamas Hamas.
This is for the sheep in the population that haven't woken up yet, and for Western liberals who still believe in all these governments. Meanwhile, Israel is planning to annex the West Bank.
They should ask end of occupation instead
Trying to imagine them asking this of Ukraine.
Apart from both being the attacked ones, they have not much in common.
Not true. Israel and russis has very similar talking points
Because Ukraine was allowed some level of sovereignty after the Sovjet Union collapsed, whereas Palestinians have been denied sovereignty ever since the British and French carved up the carcass of the Ottoman empire.
Just your friendly reminder that Hamas != Palestinians.
Right now Hamas and other armed groups are the only ones preventing Israel from the total extermination of all Palestinians in Gaza.
If it wasn't for the armed resistance, Israeli soldiers wouldn't rely on using food to bait starving people into the fire of the death squads. Without armed resistance they could just go house to house.
But also over the past two decades. Without armed resistance in Gaza, Israel wouldn't have stopped annexing Gaza with settlements. Only because the resistance made that too costly, Israel abandoned its settlements and turned Gaza into an open air prison instead.
You are right, that Palestinians are not equal to Hamas. As the supporters of Israels like the US and most Europeans always helped Israels in its crimes, rather than stopping them, armed resistance is the only lifeline for the Palestinian people.
Sure but hamas is more popular than the palestinian autority, most palestinians do not support hamas dropping arms
Yeah, but people are desperate and die of hunger.
So tell the west to stop selling weapons and impose state level sanctions. Israel said it won't stop the war after hostages are released. The israeli governmemt is determined to do it's final solution
Trying to imagine them asking this of Russia.
Disarming russia and israel would be cool. Ukraine and palestine should not drop arms till they are safe from occupation
Much easier, as NATO's been gunning for that for decades
If there suddenly would really be a Palestinian state then Hamas would become one of the most successful rebel/freedom fighter organizations ever.
They wouldn't be the ones recognized by the international community, though. That would most likely go to the Palestinian Authority. They've always been preferred over Hamas.
It wouldn't be the PA either it's too unpopular
Regardless, it would still make Hamas successful in reaching the goal of a Palestinian state. And if statehood was recognized then Hamas could immediately disarm and hand control over to the Palestinian army, which would find itself in sudden need of soldiers and leaders.
Hamas hasn't been gunning for international recognition for over a decade, so that's already accounted for. Hamas's demand is pretty explicitly a Palestinian state period, a Palestinian state led by them. If that happens they'll probably reform as a political party like they did in 2005.
the war that was instigated by BIBI, have they not forgotten that. the arab states, are definitely afraid of palestinians flooding thier borders, for the sole reason in the past they had cause uprising in countries wherever they fleed.