this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2023

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censored? (self.asklemmy)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by angrynomad to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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I find it ironic on a free speech platform that access to a community about censorship is censored https://exploding-heads.com/c/censorship

What exactly is wrong with this instance to be defederated? In browsing it, I see nothing hateful

Or did they defederate from this instance, so you cant view/post on it. Not sure if I completely understand how that works yet

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[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The Lemmy software is intended to be somewhat censorship resistant, but that does not mean that lemmy.ml is a "free speech platform".

Like most instances, lemmy.ml has rules (they're in the sidebar on the front page) and we regularly delete posts and comments which violate them.

That instance you're talking about is intended to be a "free speech platform", which in modern internet parlance is a synonym for "nazi bar". One of the two admins of that instance says explicitly: “racism, bigotry, sexism is allowed".

Most Lemmy users aren't into racism, bigotry, sexism, and the other things people there are into, so, most Lemmy instances have defederated them.

I hope this answers your question!

[–] angrynomad -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

So essentially it's highly censored to defederate them. Not only you can't view them using a different instance and post, but registering there, you can only interact with their instance. Lemmy needs a better method. I was thinking about this the other day, why is something as simple as blocking content on the users end or blocking x type of content not an option, even on registration. Even if there's hate speech mixed in, freedom of speech should exist, but freedom to not hear it, should also exist. Essentially shadow banning, but done by choice of those who don't want to hear said content.

Racism, bigotry, and sexism, exist in everyone. Maybe there's just better ways to express it, or not to. But it's cultural, people want to be with their culture, their people. When you force people to 'accept' everyone, they lose their Identity.

I really don't think Lemmy will survive as everyone will be afraid of getting cancelled and defederated.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I hope you're a teenager.

[–] angrynomad 0 points 2 years ago

Ah yes, when one can't rationally discuss, personal attacks

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

An environment where anyone can spin up an instance where they control member accounts and then post on other instances with impunity would obviously be an unusable hellscape of griefing and abuse. The only, ONLY, ONLY way a community can survive in these conditions is if they have power to censor the content that they syndicate. Indeed, that is the whole point of community groups vs just consuming raw Internet; the content has been curated (aka censored) according to some set of rules.

There are pure P2P networks that function the way you want. Go take a look and discover why no one is there.

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Freenet still seems to be around. As I posted in my other comment here, I think Lemmy needs a client side censorship instead, giving users the option to hide what they don't want. Eventually this will become a mess of instances doing anything to prevent getting canceled, thus increasing censorship.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Users and what they want are not important. Honestly. They are not. Even a little bit. You are so used to being "the customer" and having smoke blown up your ass, you can't wrap your head around your actual role here in the fediverse as an unpaying user, taking advantage of services that private individuals are providing to you out of their own pocket.

When someone posts child porn to Lemmy, the users don't get their door kicked down, your friendly neighborhood sysops do. When someone DDOSes the site, users don't get the bills for overages, sysops do. Users "want" or "don't want" to see certain content, but sysops bear the actual real world consequences for that content. The desires of users are inconsequential compared to the needs of sysops. If you are not happy with the editorial decisions your sysop has made, if you want to have your own node that allows everyone to send you any illegal thing they want, you have that option.

I was on freenet again about six months ago. It has some cool stuff like a distributed social network with about ten active users. Knock yourself out.

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You are all over the place. Users are exactly what makes this all run. Free speech is different from illegal content.

But yeah, that first line there, why should I even bother contributing if that's the attitude?

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Free speech allows you to stand in public and speak your mind. It does NOT allow you to use MY property to speak your mind. "Free speech" has no place in this discussion because we are not even fucking talking about interactions with the state.

Several people have given you consistent explanations but you just brush them off because they are not compatible with your brainwashed ideological expectations. Apparently there is no end to your naivete and entitlement. I'm done trying to give you a clue. Figure it out yourself, kid.

[–] hoodlem@hoodlem.me 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You’re always free to create an account there. Or host your own instance and federate with whoever you want :-)

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago

But then if I federate with them I risk being defederated, or if I decide I don't want to pay for hosting anymore. I also don't want multiple accounts.

[–] Anonymoose 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm new here myself but as I understand it, defederation essentially separates that instance from the rest of the "lemmy-verse" by not allowing users created on that instance to interact and post to other lemmy instances.

You can still go to exploding heads and create a user there to post within that space. That user just won't be able to interact with other lemmy instances that don't federate to it. Maybe it's less censorship and more of a refusal to associate with certain content.

Someone more knowledgeable please feel free to correct any errors, lol.

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I tried going to https://infosec.pub/c/censorship@exploding-heads.com and it was empty except one post. shortly after I posted this it looked like their whole instance went offline though. something is glitching, sometimes I can see all the posts when reloading, but usually not

[–] Anonymoose 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Additionally, since your account is lemmy.ml , you need to creating an account on exploding heads to interact and post new content to that censorship community ( I THINK ), since they no longer federate.

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm on infosec.pub because I couldn't get registration working anywhere. I really don't think Lemmy will survive because of how convoluted it is.

I don't want to have to maintain multiple accounts or figure out how to get to the exploding heads url. A normal user just wants one account to "just work".

Hell, I can never even remember my own instances url

See my other post in this thread https://infosec.pub/comment/488302

Seeing the linking url I'm even more confused to this, I thought I posted on asklemny@lemmy.ml, so everything I post really is tied to my origin instance

[–] Anonymoose 1 points 2 years ago

That I'm not sure of, it must have something to do with where the originating account is from and the interaction with how it's posted to a different Lemmy instance. Maybe when you post on a different instance, your original instance hosts the content and links it on the outside one? Something to dig into for sure.

Yeah Lemmy isn't perfect, I doubt it'll reach the levels reddit is at in terms of users. I do see the appeal in smaller niche communities, sort of like the old school forums that are still around but much more interconnected.

[–] Anonymoose 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Infosec.pub is the lemmy instance where I created my account and is different than the exploding heads instance. If you want to see that content, go to https://exploding-heads.com/c/censorship

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

right, but you cant interact unless you create an account there, thus fragmenting the 'fediverse'

[–] Anonymoose 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't see it any differently than a subreddit being banned, at least those users still keep whatever content and community they created. Defederation is just a moderation tool. At the very least, it appears there is consensus among admins and user polls in some instances before defedersting.

[–] angrynomad 1 points 2 years ago

Well ,if your home instance is defederated, you're essentially blocked from another instance, not just a community.

It's no small thing to defederate, beehaw has many communities, all not accessible across Lemmy now

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