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What an employee does in their private time is none of a company's business. They can fuck off tbh.
*Unless the employee is competing directly with the company
(I originally read into nonexistent context from the headline and am dum-dum.)
Thing is I’m all for a company dumping an employee who engages in hate speech, for example, in their spare time. It’s at-will employment so anything goes technically.
The problem here is that the guy is targeting something totally inappropriate: the concept of personal time itself. He’s saying in thinly coded language that he expects people to be working all the time. He wants to own their spare time. There’s nothing to do about this except for his staff to dump him and his company and quit their jobs. It’s at-will employment so anything goes.
He should probably get the fuck off Coinbase's board of directors then.
Perfect comeback. Fucking hypocritical piece of shit, this dude.
With a slimy bio on the coinbase page too: "Tobi Lütke has served as a member of our board of directors since February 2022. Since September 2004, Mr. Lütke has served as co-founder and director of Shopify, Inc., an e-commerce company, and, since April 2008, has served as its Chief Executive Officer."
Source: https://investor.coinbase.com/governance/board-of-directors/default.aspx
I like your style.
"Our company is like a professional sports team, except we are definitely not going to pay you like actual professional sports players." - a guy who makes way too much money
Well this is it. The top comment. 100% accuracy.
I worked for as a software engineer for a company that I did interviews for. We were told that “pet projects” were a red flag unless they were a current college student. They showed a lack of commitment to their current employer. Basically, there’s no reason for them to have a side project, they should be working more for their current boss.
I left that company shortly after.
One of my first companies put a clause in to say that they owned the code you wrote in your spare time. I peaced out too.
So glad to live in California where that type of shit is explicitly illegal. Open source software would be so fucked with how much software is produced here.
It's explicitly illegal in California? I've never heard that before.
That's meaningless if you don't use their equipment to do it. If you make a sandwich, do they own it? A table? A child? A novel? A painting?
Only the first born. You get to keep the rest.
I'm pretty sure this is illegal even in the US.
edit: shit, it depends on the State?!
If they don't recognize that it's a stave on burnout and a way to learn and expand one's skillset, I don't want to work with them either.
"I don't have any side projects so there's no reason you shouldn't pay me a living wage"
Shit in my field we are pressured into having a side hussle. Sparks creativity and innovation while being free to those who pay us.
My employer is the same. I was almost fired for attending a (unpaid!) hackathon during a weekend. A colleague was fired for doing volunteer work in weekends.
Yes, I'm looking for a new job.
That's so wild. A smart company would be begging their employees to learn how to solve new problems on the weekend for fun. Intellectually curious people are exactly who you want.
The only way this would make sense would be if you signed an NDA or something that would prevent you from participating in the specific hackathon, because secrets.
Lesson learned: Feed your boss shit and do what you want on your own time.
I can’t stand the normalisation of the term “side hustle” when it’s just a capitalist weasel word for having a second job.
I disagree. A second job is a "second job".
A side hustle is something you own.
I make apps on the side. I have no boss, nobody to report to. Some of them, I've made some extra loot.
Can you make me an app? I have a killer idea. Its uber-eats, but the driver has to come inside and eat dinner with you when you're lonely.
Being an instacart shopper, doordasher or Uber driver is a "side hustle." You don't own that. You're a contractor giving up labor rights to make very little extra money.
While that definition sounds ideal, I think most people with side hustles are still working for someone, just with flexible hours. DoorDash, Uber, transcription, etc.
Just wanted to add that part of this may be a culture thing. Here in Germany, you are required to get your employers permission to get a second job or the like. Many of you might instinctively find this corporate BS, but in reality it's mainly worker's protection. No employee is allowed to work over 60 (I think) hours in a week. To make the companies stick to that, the government will come for them if any worker exceeds this number. Your employer has the responsibility to not let you exceed that, even across multiple jobs. That's why you have to get permission for side hustles. There are other (not so pro worker) reasons for this, but that would go too far. Suffice to say that Lütke is German and this might be some thing he brought from Germany.
I feel like that's some pro-worker framing, but this could just as easily be framed in an anti-worker fashion...
It depends on the societal framework. That would be anti-worker in the U.S. because you’d be sentencing some people to death, since the U.S. doesn’t have guaranteed livable wages or livable safety nets for those out of work. Given the assumption that you can make ends meet, mandating a cap on the hours spent working for someone else’s benefit and missing out on your own life is pro-human.
Shopify's user base is probably like 75% side hustles, right? A significant portion of which are his own employees?
So I heard lots of frustration in comments around the concept but little commentary on the legality of it. Not a lawyer but do have extensive experience in HR and employment law:
Companies can put anything they want in a policy. That policy may or may not be legal. A policy that is not legal may open up lawsuit opportunities against the employer, but because most violated employees simply complain on message boards on the Internet instead of learning their rights, the policies and violations continue.
In this case, it has been well established that companies cannot limit your employment opportunities outside of work, unless you have a contract that specifically includes it AND you are provided consideration (payment or something of value in a legal contract) for this concession. You can be legally and simply terminated if you are doing non-company work on a company device, if your performance is not meeting standards, or if there are any conflicts between your employer and your other jobs, hobbies, etc.
There have been a lot of cases and laws in the last 5 years massively limiting the scope (because employers will always push any advantage as far as they can until they are regulated, legislated or outlawed) of "non-compete" clauses in job offers and policies. 10 years ago every employer was throwing these into employment contracts, some employees called them on their bullshit and now you don't see them as often--but there are definitely still companies (especially small or new) who don't have anyone who knows what is legal in this area and just make shit up. The only real holding power a non-compete has is if you have mission-critical information or trade secrets and again they must then receive consideration/payment for this concession of their ability to earn income elsewhere --and 99.9% of employees outside of C-suite don't.
If you're interested in learning more about employment law, trends, or have questions, check out my new community I created last week "Ask HR":
Most non-competes I've seen in the wild (when I was an HR, as well as in operations) have been pretty specific about the type of baned competing work as well. It's less often you can't work for our direct competition if offered a job and more you can't start a company as direct competition and you can try to steal our employees for X amount of time. It's rarely (because it likely unenforceable legally) you can't do any other work.
I signed a non-compete when starting a new job after researching and finding out it wasn’t enforceable in my state (they’re illegal).
"how they can disclose side projects" - none of your business, really.
He looks like he’s still mad that the Hobbitses stole his Precious in the photo there.
He looks like his rap album was never picked up by a label and still only has 15 listens on Spotify.
If Shopify wants employees full attention I sure hope they're paying for it too.
Do they pay well?
Former employee from the layoffs in May 23. In my experience yes. Lütkes words here are insane as are many of the other recent headlines from the company, but I can say that the severance packages were extremely generous, in my opinion.
Clearly they need to put even more effort into it because Shopify is god awful.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Shopify CEO Tobi Lütke wrote a company-wide memo Wednesday discouraging employees from having side hustles.
"This surprises me because it directly contradicts the countless times I've said Shopify is like a professional sports team that requires our unshared attention."
Even the company's president, Harley Finkelstein, has had his own Shopify store, Firebelly Tea, which he co-founded with the DavidsTea creator David Segal in 2021.
"Occasional side hustles like teaching a yoga class on the weekend or coaching your kid's soccer team once or twice a week aren't what I'm talking about.
And open source contributions are welcome, but give yourself an out - don't commit to big maintenance burden or letting them become a substantial workload," he wrote.
Shopify General Counsel Jess Hertz responded to Lütke's post saying that all employees would receive an email with more details on how they can disclose side projects or other outside work.
The original article contains 528 words, the summary contains 149 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!