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593

Diplomatic Immunity (media.kbin.social)

submitted 2 years ago by reflex@kbin.social to c/starwarsmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] MudMan@kbin.social 101 points 2 years ago (4 children)

None of Star Wars makes any sense in context. From "Darth" to the whole I think I have your dad's lightsaber stashed here somewhere thing to who Luke's family is supposed to be and these days even Obi Wan's weird desert hermit outfit now being official Jedi uniform, apparently or how Vader keeps getting bullied by all of the Empire's middle management.

Honestly, that last one is the most impressive. In retrospect, Tarkin is an absolute badass that doesn't give a crap about Vader's whole deal. And it works. The magic space wizard that basically runs the empire and everybody is terrified of just sits there and takes it. You have to respect that.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 35 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Vader wasn’t originally planned to be Luke’s dad. One of the producers came up with it halfway through Empire.

Part of being Sith is fucking over others, even those you are “allied” with. The way to become second in command is to kill the current second in command. Tarkin is at the point in his career where killing Vader would probably be a good move if he could manage it.

[–] xpinchx@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Wasn't Vader being his dad hinted at in a new hope when Luke talks to obi wan?

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Original draft of Empire by Leigh Brackett had Luke meet a force ghost of his dad. Obi Wan pretty clearly says in the original that Vader killed Luke’s father, which you can certainly claim he was being metaphorical, but I’ve never really gotten that vibe. Luke and Leia are also infamously handsy. I suggest hunting down VHS rips of the originals to see what you think. It’s a shame we’ll never get the unaltered versions in HD.

George Lucas claims it was always his plan, but he also has waffled on so many things (was it always planned to be 6 movies? Or 9? Or just a one and done?) One aspect is that he did have just a shit ton of random, unhinged ideas that never made it in.

[–] xpinchx@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Yeah I took it as the metaphorical approach, that was my take with my first exposure being the VHS tapes from the 90's.

Lucas always seemed a bit out there

[–] Fogle@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago

Darth father....

[–] MudMan@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago

Doesn't matter, really.

Because the most inconsistent thing in that scene ends up being Obi Wan choosing from the entire prequel canon the idea that Anakin was "the best pilot in the galaxy".

Seriously, he tells him that:

his dad was a good pilot.
his dad was a cunning warrior and a good friend
his dad wanted him to have his lightsaber when he was old enough.

It's not just that the facts of the conversation are wrong, it's that the tone of the conversation is entirely off for what ended up being canon, even before the prequels, but DEFINITELY after the prequels.

People latch on to the "Vader" thing, and who's to say, but it's absolutely clear watching it that the backstory they hint either makes no sense, is different than what they ended up doing, or both.

[–] Gyrolemmy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

There are a lot of late addition scenes to the versions of a new hope that have played over the last couple decades.

I tried to look that up, but the dialogue changes are so numerous they don't list them.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

'Vater' is father in German. Make of that what you want.

[–] argentcorvid@midwest.social 1 points 2 years ago

There's also the whole Vader being really close to German/Yiddish Vater = Father thing.

[–] Zak8022@artemis.camp 6 points 2 years ago (3 children)

You’re not wrong, but what points you to Tarkin being a Sith?

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

I don’t think Tarkin has to be a Sith - more that he’s a smart cookie and knows how the politics work. He knows that if he could find some way to take down Vader, it would make him look more powerful/valuable in Palpatine’s eyes.

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

None of these things are plot holes. Why is it unbelievable that Obi Wan would keep the light saber? You might not have, but that doesn’t mean Obi Wan wouldn’t. Who is Luke’s family supposed to be? Yes, Obi Wan still dresses like a Jedi when he lives as a hermit. Vader is subject to the emperor’s wishes. It’s believable that tarken is very effective and therefore the emperor sees how valuable he is and he could outrank the emperor’s useful idiot attack dog.

[–] MudMan@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago

See, it's not about plot holes.

"Plot holes" are a pretty useless concept anyway. Star Wars as a franchise goes so far out of its way to plug "plot holes", and it does absolutely nothing for its consistency or coherence.

Case in point, Obi Wan the TV series goes out of its way to justify the goofy, inconsistent use of "Darth" as a first name during the Death Star fight and all that did was break the hell out of suspension of disbelief. See also: the entirety of Solo.

It's about how you as a human can discern meaning. And yeah, in the original Star Wars Jedi Knights are meant to mostly just have been knights, like medieval knights, and likely not fundamentally connected to the idea of the Force. And the robes hermit look is supposed to be mostly Ben's whole deal, not a Jedi uniform, and Vader is clearly supposed to mostly be a glorified henchman.

And it's fine when you come back for Empire and a bunch of those things are no longer quite true. You shrug it off. Star Wars is "from a certain point of view: the franchise" and it's absolutely to its detriment.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Maybe he never force chokes tarkin cause he's into it and Vader knows this

[–] MudMan@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago

Oh, go back and watch that scene.

Tarkin clearly just likes to watch. And he's clearly calling the shots. Vader is this close to calling him "daddy".

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

Why does him having the lightsaber seem odd to you? We see him take it at the end of episode 3.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 41 points 2 years ago

"What plans?"

"The plans that were delivered to you."

"He delivered me hope. Didn't you see the previous scene?"

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 26 points 2 years ago

My headcanon is that Vader senses the force in Leia and deep down may unconsciously realise she's his daughter because she looks like her mother, which is partly why he doesn't kill her, even if the stated reason is that they still need to get information out of her.

[–] xNIBx@kbin.social 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Vader could have revoked her diplomatic immunity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY

[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 11 points 2 years ago

I thought cutting her crew members in half was the diplomatic immunity revocation process.

[–] Madrigal@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

The bit I really like it how it established hyperspace tracking as a thing WAAAAY before TLJ.

[–] reflex@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Just like Lethal Weapon 2!

[–] freamon@endlesstalk.org 4 points 2 years ago

I can hear this gif

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Haven't watched Rogue One, what planet Vader blows up before going after Leia?

PS: I've always preferred Dark Forces as being the "canon" for how the plans got stolen for the Rebels

[–] zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 13 points 2 years ago

The base on Scarif is shot by the DS. It's more like a mega nuke than planet destruction. It's the cool beach planet with shore troopers.

[–] reflex@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

PS: I’ve always preferred Dark Forces as being the “canon” for how the plans got stolen for the Rebels

From what was it again, Talay Tak base? 😏
I love it when my brain randomly fires a lost neuronal connection like that.

I read somewheres that the protagonist in Rogue One was named in reference to Katarn's pilot though—Jan Ors, Jyn Erso. Who knows?

[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Did Vader ever find out she was his kid? I haven't seen the OG movies in many years so I don't remember

[–] reflex@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Did Vader ever find out she was his kid? I haven’t seen the OG movies in many years so I don’t remember

In RotJ, when Luke fights him on the Super Star Destroyer in front of Palpatine, doesn't Vader read his thoughts? I definitely remember Vader saying, 'Sister ....' I haven't watched the OG trilogy in years too though.

[–] Gruntyfish@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Yeah, you're remembering correctly.

[–] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Episode 6 I think, when Vader is talking to Luke on Endor.

[–] zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 15 points 2 years ago

No, when they're fighting on the DS II and Luke is hiding in the shadows. He learns by sensing Luke's feelings and gives the line:

A sisterrr. You have a twin sisterrr.