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Motorists Break Law To Save Time, Cyclists Break Law To Save Lives, Finds Study (www.forbes.com)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by D_a_X@feddit.org to c/fahrrad@feddit.org

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This article is more than 4 years old. (2017)

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[–] protist@mander.xyz 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

(A Transport For London camera study of 7,500 cyclists at five junctions found in 2007 that, contrary to popular perception, most cyclists do not run reds: 84% of the cyclists stopped at red traffic lights.)

Oh my god...imagine if 16% of cars just blew through red lights. I bike too, and other cyclists do us no favors. I respect cyclists when I drive, and I've almost killed someone on a bike more than once after they fly through a stop sign or around a blind curve with reckless disregard. Some cars drive recklessly too, but absolutely a higher percentage of cyclists ignore traffic laws and freak out drivers who worry about killing someone. This is a problem that involves deficient infrastructure, but good god y'all follow basic traffic safety laws, it's all we've got right now

[–] LeFrog@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 4 months ago

Sorry as it is only a German source, but its actually worse regarding car drivers breaking rules:

https://www.t-online.de/mobilitaet/recht-und-verkehr/id_84873806/verkehrssuenden-ranking-der-autofahrer-und-radfahrer.html

https://www.stern.de/auto/news/bei-rot-ueber-die-ampel--das-ist-keine-spezialitaet-von-kampfradlern-7767444.html

At least in Germany your statement about some "higher percentage" is plain wrong.

[–] gaael@lemm.ee 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

freak out drivers who worry about killing someone

Good. Cars are as dangerous as firearms, drivers should be worried af about accidentally killing someone all the time they drive.

[–] grue@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

"Fuck factual reality as proven by this scientific study; I'm going to just keep spewing my preconceived biases anyway!"

[–] Obelix@feddit.org 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

No, @protist@mander.xyz has a point. It's not a great statistic when 16% of cyclists drive over red lights. There are idiots on bikes, too. The consequences of their actions might be a bit less than those of idiots in cars, but they can also harm people: You don't want to be hit by a 90km guy going 25km/h on a 35kg eBike and even if they only hurt themselves, it's also not great for the health system.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

No, he really doesn't have a point. First of all, he seems to think his anecdotes are better than data, which is categorically wrong.

Second, y'all are treating that red-light statistic as some sort of smoking gun to condemn cyclists, without any consideration of whether a cyclist running a red light actually is as bad as a car driver running a red light or not. In fact, there are a lot of circumstances that are different between bikes and cars, such that treating them differently can actually be appropriate. Haven't you ever heard of the Idaho Stop? That state, and increasing numbers of others, are recognizing that in fact it isn't appropriate to hold cyclists to the same rules as car drivers because letting them behave differently is safe.

Believe it or not, most cyclists aren't actually suicidal. The reality is that if a bunch of them are running red lights, it's probably either because they have no choice (because the sensor isn't recognizing them to trigger a green) or feel that it's safer than the alternative.

[–] Obelix@feddit.org 1 points 4 months ago

Yeah, I know. I cycle myself. Sometimes I break the law, sometimes not. But that 86% study was done in central London and if you've ever cycled there, something like the Idaho Stop is not really sensible there. And there is so much traffic that you won't find any issues with sensors not recognizing your fancy carbon bike.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 0 points 4 months ago

I quoted the study, which is a study of self-reported, hypothetical intentionality that doesn't "prove" anything. Again, I cycle, and recognize the dangers cars pose and how irresponsible many drivers are, as well as the deficiencies in our infrastructure for transit.

This is my anecdotal but genuine experience, I see cyclists blow through stop signs and red lights at full speed on a weekly basis, where I can count the number of cars I've seen act similarly over the past 5 years on one hand. This is absolutely not done for safety reasons and is dangerous.