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So this is one of the numerous times when Christian fundamentalists and Islamists are working together on a goal: oppressing freedom and knowledge.
It's extremely creepy that those pedophilic organizations are always fighting against sexual education: maybe because kids then would know that what the religious figure says and does is criminal?
Several Islamic groups have also condemned the program in a joint statement, fearing it will favor “hypersexualization” of children.
Aren't these the same people that think marrying girls at 10 years of age is fine?
No. Islam is not one single thing. The majority of those (some of whom don't want Sex Ed in school) don't like pedophilia either (I am not saying it is a good thing to not want Sex Ed, I think that's stupid) __ And before anyone says anything, yes I understand this is part of Islamic history but it doesn't mean the whole collective of Muslims are "okay" with it, or that these people are those, that would be insane.
Edit: made my pov clearer
No, it's not part of Islamic history, it is part of Islamic theology.
Most Muslims are Sunni, and within Sunni Islam there are 4 schools of jurisprudence. All four of these schools have deemed it acceptable to marry a girl off as soon as she is born, and hand her over to her rapist when she turns 9 years old or bleeds.
While most Muslims are anti pedophilia, the Islamic sources and clerics are not. It is a huge problem where I'm from.
Okay but the answer to the main question in that comment is no, these are not the same people and it's not easy to tell unless they explicitly say so
Nowhere did I say "All muslims are OK with marrying girls at 10 years of age". In Western culture, not everybody wants to have a heterosexual relationship, a Christian wedding, get a kid(s), a house, a pet, and send the man off to work while the wife stays at home. It is the dominant culture however. Pointing out that it is a thing, isn't judgement on every single person in every single Western country worldwide.
I was pointing out hypocrisy. No need to get your panties in a bunch because in this case it involved somebody who you consider not to be in power. They are human, they can be hypocrites too. Doesn't matter if they're a minority in their country.
Yep, errr, I didn't mean that you said that, but I think the person whom I originally responded to did. Thought that was clear from my comment. I also don't think it's fair to be judging Muslims by the teachings that are controversial among them and the rest of the world is unfair and it draws stereotypes as conclusion, potentially leading to more harm.
In Muslim countries, by the standards of the majortiy of Muslims, people don't think Mohammed married a 9 year old or don't think about it or simply believe the version that says she was 18 anyway, and almost no one would support laws that make the lives of pedophiles easier, the AVERAGE Muslim is horrified at anything involving sexually assaulting a minor. Islam is an umbrella term for a lot of things, but if we are going to judge Islam by how the followers interpret it (rather than the clericsd) to better understand their position and effect on this on society, the landscape changes. There are so many problematic aspects about Islam and Muslims but it doesn't help to misrepresent them. If we really want to win this dumb culture war or religious war or identity war or whatever it is and help others, we need to do better.
Ah, I'm on kbin. For some reason, I don't see you were responding to somebody else. Guess some context was lost.
For reference, someone said this:
Several Islamic groups have also condemned the program in a joint statement, fearing it will favor “hypersexualization” of children.
Aren't these the same people that think marrying girls at 10 years of age is fine?
My argument is, no you can't assume that. I am not disagreeing that Islam has pedophilia in its teaching, just that these are probably mostly either mosque imams or parents that are not particularly smart with parenting and don't feel like kids should be "exposed" to sex ed (I am not defending them, just saying that they are probably not the select few Muslims who defend pedophilia and marry off their children). Yes, Islamic parenting has some issue with sex ed that needs to be addressed; these are misinformed parents but could easily also be stubborn stupid parents who let tradition and religion dictate their lives.
However, making that comparison doesn't help anyone nor enable anyone to understand the situation better.
Anyone burning down schools to "protect the children" should take a very hard look at themselves. I hope they catch the people responsible quickly.
I do fear that this will cause some more islamophobia here (and we already have plenty). The problem isn't religion per se, it's misinformation. People believe that this program would cause teachers to teach kids how to masturbate, which is obviously ridiculous.
Unfortunately, fake news is more common in certain groups. One of those groups is muslims. It's the same reason why vaccination rates are much lower among them.
It's a problem that runs very deeply and is a consequence of a failed integration approach.
The problem isn't religii per se
Eeehh, religions (and cultural practices based on stone age values) are a HUGE part of the problem, though, if not all of it.
You don't see progressives and atheists burning down schools. That is exclusively for the religious and the backwards.
Meanwhile these are the same people that are okay with a 40 year old man marrying a 10 year old child. I'm sorry, if I'm an Islamophobe for saying that's a problem, then I'll happily be an Islamophobe. We no longer live in the 1500's, so stop acting as if we are. You disagree, you talk. You don't cut off heads or burn down schools.
Yes, I'm quite anti religions, but islam is the worst.
And on teaching masturbation... everybody thinking that a teacher would be jacking it in from of children should think again. You can safely tell children that it's okay and normal to touch yourself (in appropriate moments) as you would touch others, and that you don't need to be ashamed of that.
Wtf Belgium, you’re not the United States. Chill out.
We arent the us, no worries :')
The problem is that extremists are everywhere and with the easy access of information, things from other places are happening here too, even if they are not applicable ( like police voilence or blm protests ). That said, fuck those extremists, whatever their background is :')
Also, this article sucks. It doesnt even explain what the new sexual education is about
I'm sorry... you don't think police violence and BLM are applicable in Belgium?
Police violence is endemic wherever the police exist, and I find it hard to believe that racism against black & brown people isn't a problem in the place that ruled the Belgian Congo until 1960.
I wonder if I just google "belgian police racism"...
Oh. Oh no.
Oh we definitely have racism. It's just less "black lives matter" and more "only my skin colour matters". And yeah, this definitely extends to the police too. But given they're very, very scrutinised every time they dare pull their gun in public, at least we don't have the "police raids wrong unit and shoots owner" happenings.
What is happening is still far from OK, any instance of racism is one too many, but the problems here are a bit more nuanced than what is in general shared on a public, overly-Americanized forum.
And in case you are American/Canadian/Australian, can I please point back to whatever is still happening to your native population? Not a single country is free from blame from what they did to other or their own nations. Call me butthurt, but I'm getting quite a bit tired of getting called out on the Congo on every single thread mentioning Belgium while that was mostly, originally one man's doing. Again, nuance, I know more stuff happened afterwards, but it's not relevant to this thread.
I don't care about your personal level of culpability or whatever. This isn't a nationalistic game of finger pointing, you know that, right?
Like yeah, my country did genocides too. That's just reality. I'm just not so small minded that I think it reflects on me personally. The ruling class is always the numerical minority. Fuck Australia. Fuck every state. The difference is that I'm not out here trying to pretend like my dominators are any better than the rest.
Like if you don't want to have people constantly pointing out your country's violent racist crimes both historical and present, maybe stop trying to downplay them. Maybe people wouldn't say this to you so often if you listened for once and stopped volunteering that your country is actually pretty good in comparison. It. Is. Not.
You completely ignored the fact that your police are racist, and it's not against white people. Your "only my skin colour matters" line sounds one step away from the reverse racism crap that white supremacists love to bang on about. It's the most American thing you've said so far.
I think they meant "with only my skin colour matters" that Belgium has a higher rate of racism against other skin colour than just black people. As a lot of the bigotry is also cultural, so more against where you from specifically, instead of which colour is your skin. As it is in most of Europe. The North African and Arab community has got it bad since they are Muslim and brown and the biggest group of immigrants. So he definitely didn't ignore it. He only pointed out that there are some policies in place, so that the actions of racist cops at least cannot lead to the slaughter of innocent people.
Pointing out the differences is not as bad as you think. It high lights what policies and changes can at least minimize the effect of racism. Just saying everything and everyone is racist, independent of the impact of bad and good policies, will just create a hyper cynisme that it is all shit and any change doesn't matter.
even if they are not applicable ( like police voilence or blm protests )
"Not applicable" then got walked back to "at least we don’t have the “police raids wrong unit and shoots owner” happenings" when I showed that it definitely is applicable. Like congrats, you don't have the absolute worst police in the world in your country of extreme wealth that was garnered through plunder and genocide along with the rest of the colonial powers.
And BLM isn't just confined to advocating for black people specifically, they have solidarity with other victims of police violence, especially the racialised ones. The idea that the banner can't be used for advocacy in other places makes no sense. It absolutely is "applicable".
As for the cynicism, it's right to be cynical about the police. They are a cynical organisation. The moment the ruling class comes under threat the gloves will come off and they won't give two shits about scrutiny or paperwork. It's a thin veneer of civility, not actual safety.
Thing is, you will have the problem everywhere and forever that humanity exists, but it is in a way lower number of cases and police is just a way less hostile environment then in some other places...
Not my police
I always saw Belgium as redneck France.
it’s not a baguette, it’s a bread stick, mon ami!
Cheesy bread
De Croo spoke just hours after a sixth school in the French-speaking Wallonia region was torched this week.
Sixth burnt school this week! Holy shit.
As it turns out, fundamentalists are actually terrorists.
Because they are educating the children! How dare they?!
Since I didn't immediately understand what this is about: "EVRAS" stands for "Relational, Emotional and Sexual Education" and it is a general guide for schools on how to educate school children on this matter. How many hours are advised, which topics should be talked about, etc. For example the UNESCO and the WHO research and work on EVRAS programs. But each school implements it differently, it's just a framework.
This is a summary on topics which are mentioned in the program. So it's basically a help for teachers on how to talk about that stuff:
Sources (hard to find because everyone's talking about the arsons...):
They have great objectives. Hopefully they are pursuing them in a safe/sane manner.
Sounds like some adults need to be taught the program, too.
United States will be sending a cease and desist letter. Our playbook is copyright protected.
Same shit, different century.
The land of Marc Dutroux and Cristian fundamentalism. Forget the fries and waffles.