this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2025
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Black hole cosmology suggests that the Milky Way and every other observable galaxy in our universe is contained within a black hole that formed in another, much larger, universe.

The theory challenges many fundamental models of the cosmos, including the idea that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe.

It also provides the possibility that black holes within our own universe may be the boundaries to other universes, opening up a potential scenario for a multiverse.

Mine blown 🀯

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[–] BB84@mander.xyz 52 points 4 months ago

I recommend critically reading the paper. It is quite accessible to those with college-level science background.

Most importantly, it is still highly controversial whether this galaxy rotation direction bias actually exists. If you look at section 4 of the paper, the author is debating against different groups that did similar surveys and found no bias. Someone needs to actually work through this author's methodology as well as those of other groups and figure out what is going on.

If there is indeed a bias, that is super exciting! An anisotropic universe due to being in a black hole would be a very cool explanation. But given the ongoing debate, a general-audience publication like Independent presenting this rotation bias as a given fact is very poor journalism.

[–] nulluser@lemmy.world 42 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Last few paragraphs...

Shamir noted that an alternative explanation for why most of the galaxies in the study rotate clockwise is that the Milky Way’s rotational velocity is having an impact on the measurements.

β€œIf that is indeed the case, we will need to re-calibrate our distance measurements for the deep universe,” said Shamir.

"The re-calibration of distance measurements can also explain several other unsolved questions in cosmology such as the differences in the expansion rates of the universe and the large galaxies that according to the existing distance measurements are expected to be older than the universe itself.”

That's leading me to think that that's actually the more probable explanation, and the black hole idea comes in a distant second in terms of probability, but is much more attention grabbing/sensational/click-baity.

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The black hole idea is actually weirdly solid, its a case of the maths says we definetaly should be but observation and just intuition says its crazy. If you consider the event horizon to be the surface of a volume, black holes get less dense as their radius increases, you can have a black hole with the same density as rock, water, air, even the miniscule density of the gas in a vacuum, so long as teh black hole is large enough. The average density of the observable universe is higher than the density of a black hole the size of the observable universe so technically we should be in one.

Technically this doesn't have to affect anything, larger black holes can have gentler gravity gradients and nothing in physics actually demands all the mass inside be concentrated at a miniscule central point, it just works out that way for black holes of the size we've seen so far. So the entire universe could be a black hole (assuming its finite) with the event horizon just being functionally inacessable and the black hole so large that internal conditions aren't really influenced in any way.

[–] Soggy@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

Surely at some point it stops being useful to apply the same terminology to such vastly different concepts. If the universe is a black hole and Sagittarius A* is a black hole then "black hole" doesn't communicate anything effectively outside of extremely niche astrophysics conversations.

[–] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The mass of the visible universe is apparently enough to make a black hole with an event horizon ten times larger than the visible universe's. I don't understand how that hasn't happened already, but apparently it just doesn't look like it's happened ("unless...").

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

It could totally have happened already and we just don't notice, though there's kind of a critical size where a black hole just gets infinitely big as adsorbing a stray hydrogen atom in the vacuum of space increases its radius enough to encompass multiple new hydrogen atoms and the whole thing just expands to encompass the entire universe. Kind of when everything is a black hole then nothing is a black hole sorta situation.

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[–] Boxscape@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)
[–] foggy@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I've kinda thought that were some n-dimension universe getting sucked into an n-dimension black hole, and what happens as that universe crosses the event horizon is the big bang, the arrow of time. And all of the matter and forces that have them appearing to interact is just some beautiful n-dimension spaghettification.

The universe isn't expanding; all mafter within it is shrinking, being crushed. all matter appears to be accelerating further and further away because, well, it is. From our perspective.

Think of our whole universe as the most epic allegory of the cave possible.

I'll go back to ripping my bong now.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If this is true, do you think time exists outside the outer black hole? In the least, I might imagine it's moving very differently than our interior universe.

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[–] Actionschnils@feddit.org 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The Frensh-German TV-Channel Arte published a Documentary about the theorem, that we are probably living in a black hole. According to them its based on the work of Nikodem Poplawski (mathematician and physicist). It was a kinda nice theory and seemed appealing. But Im no scientist and I have no idea about higher Math and Physics. Sadly, on the German Arte-TV-Site the video is not avaible anymore. (According to German Law public-TV-Channels arent allowed to keep their Videos up online unlimited) https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/101940-002-A/leben-wir-in-einem-schwarzen-loch/

But I assume there are other sources, probably even in other languages.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 18 points 4 months ago

if you can call that living

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 4 months ago

Oh sure but when I say this I'm "too high" and need to "quit smoking." I been told y'all.

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

the idea that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe

I always thought this was the consensus, but turns out, it was just as far back as we can go where physics as we know it work. Not everyone claimed that nothing existed before.

[–] lunarul@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (6 children)

nothing existed before

Thing is that there's no "before", because time itself started with the big bang. The questions to ask are: is there anything other than our universe, and does that even matter? If nothing can get in or out of our universe, then there's no way to prove the existence of anything outside of it and there's zero impact one way or another.

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago

Time as we know it started. That doesn't mean time as we don't know it wasn't around.

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[–] Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago
[–] ramenshaman@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago
[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Bruh I'm just trying to get through the workday I don't need this on my mind!

[–] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 8 points 4 months ago

I honestly appreciate that we don't understand the universe. Theories keep evolving and that's what science should look like. If we can't question "established" scientific theories, we have abandoned the scientific method. Strong theories hold up. Like the theory of gravity, although even there I'm not convinced we have a complete understanding. Good answers are good, but who knows what we might be capable of if we keep pushing for more.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago

Chat is this real?

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

much larger universe than this? are you fucking kidding? we might just as well die then.

[–] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Or you might just as well live given the absurdity of it all.

[–] madcaesar@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You both make excellent points!

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[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

we might just as well die

Because it's not what you expected?
I can assure you, whatever you expected is just as strange and absurd as this.

Let me put this in another way:
To think that time might have not existed, then started up at some point, breaks my brain.
To think that time might go on for infinity in the past, with no starting point, also breaks my brain.

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[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago

I like these observations and theories, despite them being the ramblings of very ignorant creatures (all of us as a species).

This said, we don't have evidence to suggest we aren't the most intelligent creatures to ever exist. It seems very, very unlikely... But, such is the rarity of life so far as we've observed.

So... These are lots of fun! If not for any other reason, than for the reason of humbling us all.

Man, this is so cool!!

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 4 points 4 months ago

Explains the warped timeline

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Why aren't we all spaghetti, then?

[–] Beacon@fedia.io 18 points 4 months ago

All the matter in our universe was sucked into the black hole and then coalesced into all the forms that exist now. (Presumably, and if this hypothesis is true)

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